JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 7]

[CriticalThought]

A 5th gen wvr sir ?

pl 10 vs python 5

https://quwa.org/2016/01/10/background-within-visual-range-air-to-air-missiles-wvraam/

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

So did anyone notice in 23rd March Parade today; the commentator while describing Raad ALCM said that it can be carried by all fighter aircraft in PAF inventory. The commentator speaking at the time was Farah Hussain(TV Anchor), so its unlikely she can say something of the sorts just on her own.

Does this mean RAAD has been integrated to JF-17?

@Windjammer @Bilal Khan 777

JF17 is for conventional use only at this time. It does not carry multi-role/multi-use weapons.

 

[SQ8]

I thought our Viper aces prefer the cut throttle, position, fire back approach? Higher AoA at slower speeds can make them subconsciously complacent, luring them into a sustained turn match with bandit on the six armed with 5th gen WVRs. Ouch!!!

I don’t understand what you mean

 

[CriticalThought]

I don’t understand what you mean

On the viper at least, sharp corner turns can be made by cutting throttle, applying air breaks in full, which gives increased maneuverability, allowing the pilot to position as needed, and then fire full afterburners to gain back lift. Done quickly, the pilot can avoid losing altitude, or he might gain some extra altitude at the beginning to compensate. It requires a very high performance engine.

Changing aerodynamics to gain high AoA at slow speeds is the poor man's solution. You go into the turn with full speed, high AoA creates drag reducing speed, but aerodynamics allows you to keep altitude and not stall. In effect, this is a sustained turn at very low speed. A recipe for disaster if you have a bandit at your six. Training should condition pilots to not fall into the trap, but I feel uneasy if the option is there. This method creates the same overall effect but consumes more time and time is life. But if your engine doesn't cycle quickly between top and zero thrust and back, if your air breaks don't create the necessary drag, then you go for poor man's solution. This is the approach being taken on Gripen and F-35. I doubt they can exhibit quick corner turns.

The other method is super-maneuverability via TVC. I don't know what kind of corner performance TVC would give and what effect there will be on altitude. I do know TVC engines increase risk of failure due to mechanical moving parts. Not the ideal platform for aggressive aces.

 

[Jinn Baba]

Don't pay much heed to their words. Unless you see JF-17 physically firing Ra'ad. Check the size of Ra'ad. It can not be integrated with JF-17 in it's existing configuration

and then go through this thread to know more

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/anatomy-of-the-hatf-viii-raad-air-launched-cruise-missile.436702/

I'll read the thread you linked. In the meanwhile, can you explain why JF17 cannot carry RAAD? Is it because its lower to the ground than Mirage? And what will we use once Mirage are retired?

View attachment 549018

Would love to see at least one JF17 with desert or even the camo that PAF Mirage have

 

[SQ8]

On the viper at least, sharp corner turns can be made by cutting throttle, applying air breaks in full, which gives increased maneuverability, allowing the pilot to position as needed, and then fire full afterburners to gain back lift. Done quickly, the pilot can avoid losing altitude, or he might gain some extra altitude at the beginning to compensate. It requires a very high performance engine.

Changing aerodynamics to gain high AoA at slow speeds is the poor man's solution. You go into the turn with full speed, high AoA creates drag reducing speed, but aerodynamics allows you to keep altitude and not stall. In effect, this is a sustained turn at very low speed. A recipe for disaster if you have a bandit at your six. Training should condition pilots to not fall into the trap, but I feel uneasy if the option is there. This method creates the same overall effect but consumes more time and time is life. But if your engine doesn't cycle quickly between top and zero thrust and back, if your air breaks don't create the necessary drag, then you go for poor man's solution. This is the approach being taken on Gripen and F-35. I doubt they can exhibit quick corner turns.

The other method is super-maneuverability via TVC. I don't know what kind of corner performance TVC would give and what effect there will be on altitude. I do know TVC engines increase risk of failure due to mechanical moving parts. Not the ideal platform for aggressive aces.

It is one tactic but not the only one- not sure how its is a preference for anyone. Haven’t heard of it being used as such since the alternative of trading kinetic (speed) for potential(altitude) is the preferred positioning tactic. Alternatively, one can maintain an occillating path behind a bandit to maintain chase.

Higher AoA at slower speeds is a requirement if you have already gotten yourself into that situation.
Look up review of F-16 pilots flying the hornet for your answer.

 

[BHarwana]

JF-17B Myanmar Air Force

 

[Kabotar]

Can anybody explain what is Thunder Turn?

 

[My-Analogous]

Can anybody explain what is Thunder Turn?

Good Question. Same here

 

[Secret Service]

Good Question. Same here

To my understanding, 90 degree high G turn and then again 90 degree horizontal turn in opposite direction like a S figure.

 

[CriticalThought]

Can anybody explain what is Thunder Turn?

Thunder Turn:

Imagine you have a hostile at your six o clock (immediately behind your back). At high speed, you make a sharp right turn and the enemy follows suit. You then immediately bank hard to the left. The high Angle of Attack causes you to lose altitude and speed, which causes the pursuer to overshoot you. You gain back maneuverability, position yourself and now you have the advantage. You wouldn't pull this off every single time. It's a surprise up Thunder's sleeve.

 

[Kabotar]

Thunder Turn:

Imagine you have a hostile at your six o clock (immediately behind your back). At high speed, you make a sharp right turn and the enemy follows suit. You then immediately bank hard to the left. The high Angle of Attack causes you to lose altitude and speed, which causes the pursuer to overshoot you. You gain back maneuverability, position yourself and now you have the advantage. You wouldn't pull this off every single time. It's a surprise up Thunder's sleeve.

Thanks

 

[Thorough Pro]

The commentators, it looks like are just trolling the Indians.

Can anybody explain what is Thunder Turn?

 

[mshan44]

Final checks of JF-17 shock absorbers.

 

[SQ8]

Thunder Turn:

Imagine you have a hostile at your six o clock (immediately behind your back). At high speed, you make a sharp right turn and the enemy follows suit. You then immediately bank hard to the left. The high Angle of Attack causes you to lose altitude and speed, which causes the pursuer to overshoot you. You gain back maneuverability, position yourself and now you have the advantage. You wouldn't pull this off every single time. It's a surprise up Thunder's sleeve.

Not really.
All it does is shows off the ability to maintain energy and change direction rapidly.

A smart enemy would never get this close.