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JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 7]

If not retractable canards then how about canards that simply fold to the side.

Hi,

It is more difficult to keep a design simple than making it complicated---.

The example of ' complicated design ' is in front of us at our neighbors house---.

If the Paf wanted those winglets---the JF17 would have had them---.

Next---pop out winglets are more of a problem---they are not needed---.

Mastan sb can you share one example of Folding Fuel Probe on a Lightweight Aircraft?

Rafale claimed to have very small RCS but use fixed fuel probe.


Hi,

I answered that question in the second para---you missed that part---.

" Youngman---Paf cannot even add a folding fuel probe---you talk about folding winglets---.

Do you understand the factor of difficulty involved in that venture???? "
 
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they were in tests last time in china sir

myanmarjf17.jpg

Pictures_of_Myanmar_s_first_JF_17_Thunder_fighter_jet_appear_640_001.jpg


DIJvvVmUIAI4LDj.jpg
well i saw the pics when they were out but what was in my knowledge that they were being tested in china not delivered to myanmar .
 
well i saw the pics when they were out but what was in my knowledge that they were being tested in china not delivered to myanmar .
bhai jan how many years they need to test ? bus ho gya kam de diya ho ga
 
Canards do offer an advantage as they are easier to put in vs tvc; in cheetah we had both plus hmds/hobs.
Both systems have different mechanisms and input to moment, Canards allow the airframe to exceed the angle of attack and created greater pitch momentum but they do so via aerodynamics.
TVC changes direction of thrust but with a much higher drag penalty. The utility of TVC ended with HoB systems.
 
Both systems have different mechanisms and input to moment, Canards allow the airframe to exceed the angle of attack and created greater pitch momentum but they do so via aerodynamics.
TVC changes direction of thrust but with a much higher drag penalty. The utility of TVC ended with HoB systems.
Yes, that is correct. TVC also requires a complex change to overall engine in comparison to canards. It is correct that HOB negate any advantage but having canards can further present further advantage; this was the rational when both were presented (Canards/hobs) into Cheetahs.
 
Yes, that is correct. TVC also requires a complex change to overall engine in comparison to canards. It is correct that HOB negate any advantage but having canards can further present further advantage; this was the rational when both were presented (Canards/hobs) into Cheetahs.
Canards on the Cheetahs also offset the greater weight on the nose and with the automatic maneuvering flaps added on helped it become the 3/4 F-16 in terms of a turning fighter.

Although in my opinion it still kept the Cheetah as a very potent strike fighter and it was idiotic of Pakistani Israeli policy that they could not consider anything with open Israeli components.

Had even a partial Cheetah upgrade been available to Pakistan. They would have been available earlier than the ROSE upgrade and would have allowed for smoother Raptor integration along with other systems.
 
Canards on the Cheetahs also offset the greater weight on the nose and with the automatic maneuvering flaps added on helped it become the 3/4 F-16 in terms of a turning fighter.

Although in my opinion it still kept the Cheetah as a very potent strike fighter and it was idiotic of Pakistani Israeli policy that they could not consider anything with open Israeli components.

Had even a partial Cheetah upgrade been available to Pakistan. They would have been available earlier than the ROSE upgrade and would have allowed for smoother Raptor integration along with other systems.
I agree. A complete TOT would have been done; many of my colleagues would still be around. It was the darkest time for us as everything was poised for Lavi induction later down the road. Lavi fell aside. In my honest opinion, Cheetah would have given an completely new life and road map for the Mirages in comparison to where ROSE has led them.
It is just pure falacy to ignore Isreal. The appeasement for KSA and GCC has lead to nothing. When other countries such as Morocco have relations why not Pak? It makes no sense to me. When the arabs dont care for the Palestinian cause; even RSA we do highlight Palestine issue always now but it has not relegated our relations.
 
It is just pure falacy to ignore Isreal. The appeasement for KSA and GCC has lead to nothing. When other countries such as Morocco have relations why not Pak? It makes no sense to me. When the arabs dont care for the Palestinian cause; even RSA we do highlight Palestine issue always now but it has not relegated our relations.
Its all because of some Molviz in our society they create chaos everytime when there is news about Pakistan and israel getting closer like i remember when Musharaf met some israeli top official in UN's gallary these Mullaz (Lunatics) everybody knows what happened next.
 
I agree. A complete TOT would have been done; many of my colleagues would still be around. It was the darkest time for us as everything was poised for Lavi induction later down the road. Lavi fell aside. In my honest opinion, Cheetah would have given an completely new life and road map for the Mirages in comparison to where ROSE has led them.
It is just pure falacy to ignore Isreal. The appeasement for KSA and GCC has lead to nothing. When other countries such as Morocco have relations why not Pak? It makes no sense to me. When the arabs dont care for the Palestinian cause; even RSA we do highlight Palestine issue always now but it has not relegated our relations.

Denel, you cannot feel about the issue the way the average Muslim feels. Some of the posters here from Pakistan are not properly Muslim, very often closet atheists, therefore don't share that same emotional attachment and denigrate the discourse to insults.

The problem highlighted with PAF has been rampant corruption and sometimes open treachery against the state. The common man views such people as traitors and the cause of them they blame on a class of people they call "babus" and "brown sahibs". Basically an english speaking upper class created by the British via the Macauley policy since the 1830s. You are basically chatting with Macauley's children here, not the real average Pakistani. This is why you can never fully understand why cooperation with Israel for Pakistan is not possible. It is perfectly possible for the kind of people demonstrated here because they aren't part of the group-feeling of Muslims and the average Pakistani.

Most of such people hate themselves and their own people, and if you look through their posts, you'll find it displayed. Most average Pakistanis blame the corruption and treachery on this class of people, as they have little religious morality to fall back on.

Be that as it may,

TVC does have a role much greater than just dog fighting. There are some technical papers available online, read a few, but can't find it right off the bat just now. These papers highlight:

1. Improved LO
2. Greater BVR-centric performance at high altitude combat patterns
3. Greater fuel efficiency in flight due to lower drag in certain very useful parameters.

And a whole bunch of other things that I can't remember of the top of my head.

PS: I seriously doubt JF-17 would get TVC. It is more likely though to find itself in the Azm project. Syed Yusuf here was suggesting an interesting configuration similar to your Carver project.
 
Denel, you cannot feel about the issue the way the average Muslim feels. Some of the posters here from Pakistan are not properly Muslim, very often closet atheists, therefore don't share that same emotional attachment and denigrate the discourse to insults.

The problem highlighted with PAF has been rampant corruption and sometimes open treachery against the state. The common man views such people as traitors and the cause of them they blame on a class of people they call "babus" and "brown sahibs". Basically an english speaking upper class created by the British via the Macauley policy since the 1830s. You are basically chatting with Macauley's children here, not the real average Pakistani. This is why you can never fully understand why cooperation with Israel for Pakistan is not possible. It is perfectly possible for the kind of people demonstrated here because they aren't part of the group-feeling of Muslims and the average Pakistani.

Most of such people hate themselves and their own people, and if you look through their posts, you'll find it displayed. Most average Pakistanis blame the corruption and treachery on this class of people, as they have little religious morality to fall back on.

Be that as it may,

TVC does have a role much greater than just dog fighting. There are some technical papers available online, read a few, but can't find it right off the bat just now. These papers highlight:

1. Improved LO
2. Greater BVR-centric performance at high altitude combat patterns
3. Greater fuel efficiency in flight due to lower drag in certain very useful parameters.

And a whole bunch of other things that I can't remember of the top of my head.

PS: I seriously doubt JF-17 would get TVC. It is more likely though to find itself in the Azm project. Syed Yusuf here was suggesting an interesting configuration similar to your Carver project.
Yes, noted, this also explains the highly insulting and poisonous nature of some members of the forum who are filled with hate on everything and anything and especially against my religion. I am really fed up; instead of growing up, i fear they are a reflection on society carved out by a growing insecurity and conspiracies which is exploited to its maximum emotions by various factions for power. Moderators on this forum let them run their rants while others are hushed up. Internet has given way to these hatemongers on keyboard who are worse than people on the street with banners. Anyway, what i mean to say here is and what i never get they (Pak) are willing to get everything from US or France and blindly ignore their duplicity. If you ask anyone on the streets of Isreal, it will be Hezbollah as #1 issue and #2 is Hamas but now it is Iran as a proxy supporter for #1.

Carver was an offset project because Lavi was cancelled. Indeed TVC makes no sense for a small plane like Jf-17. Had Cheetah been allowed to evolve, i am very sure RD-93 would have made it over like it did on the POC Super F1 (RD-33) which is still flying around. IAI/Atlas would easily handled a complete TOT for Super Cheetah which uses RD engine; that would have sealed off Mirages destiny. But then again corruption and lack of vision is omni present; the concept of jf-17 was around for a long time but i can only imagine the preseverence of the idealists who fought to get this done vs elite who did not. Still even with JF-17 you are tied by your neck with China and there is no plan for doing next generation blocks in house because there are no brains/institutions/infrastucture for that work. Instead Mirages which should be scrapped asap are going on and on why? @MastanKhan just massive corruption and then crocodile tears because f-16s were not given. Grow up and have balls to be a nation and move forward.

Similarly for IFVs, they are lining up 3rd class rubbish instead of just coming here and getting so much surplus IFVs that are lined up; but someone is pocketting a lot of monies.
 
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4500 KG @M.AsfandYar but only for JF-17B, JF-17blk2 has payload of 3800-4000 KG @M.AsfandYar
Yea around in that range (4200-4500). Although irrelevant as it will never be equipped to teeth in any mission profile.
And I think Block 1s also went through wing roots strengthening after the first JFT crash. So i expect their payload to be in similar range.
 

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