JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 7]

[seesonic]

Unless you are a policy maker in China, dont be too fast in discrediting something you have no clue.

I have seen Chinese giving us the best technology they had at a time and things have not changed much since then. My uncle was among those who flew shiny F-7Ps to Pakistan, and these were equipped with avionics, HUD that even China's own J-7 series lacked at that time.

Then, some claimed that pakistan will never be given the Z-10, rather the Z-19 only as it was meant for export. Turns out we received three, tested them all ends out and returned back with suggestions for improvement and a big thanks.

In short, you should abstain from using sweeping remarks like wet dream and what not. Things can be expressed properly without throwing slang unnecessarily.

If you do not agree with something, just say you dont and the message will be there for all to see.

You are comparing a family sedan with a sports car.

The same reason why you wont see the PLAAF using J20 for patrolling mission.

PDF THINK TANK: CONSULTANT?

 

[MastanKhan]

Honestly it was not my intention to attack anyone nor to harm anyone's feelings, and even if the Sino-Pakistani-relationship is surely something special, it is far from "China delivers all Pakistan wants" nor the same as it was years before. As such IMO to deduct anything from a F-7P being better equipped than their PLAAF-J-7-counterparts or Pakistan Army getting Z-10s is too far fetched. The J-20 is currently one of the strategically most important assets, it's pure high end and any sale has not only a military technical side but also a political. A J-20 with its extreme long range is pure overkill for Pakistan.

Therefore I agree with you my words were too harsh, but from all I know for the moment, by all political connections put into context and a comparison of the situation once to today I come to the conclusion, Pakistan should not hang too high hopes to get the J-20 but instead should better try to co-develop a smaller, lighter but surely not less advanced design.

Best,
Deino

Hi Deino,

Since the indian submarine surfaced in and around pakistani waters---every chinese weapons system is available to pakistan other than nuclear---.

Even though it was obvious from day one---but neither did the pakistanis realized and nor did the chinese acknowledged the true REACTION from the adversaries about the Gwadar port---.

I mean to say that it was anticipated---but when it really happened---it was a shock for pakistan---because it caught pakistan with its ants down---and it was a serious concern for china---because it caught them napping and under prepared for the task.

 

[khanasifm]

Jf17 B in PAC

Looks like mb seats are being installed ??
No ejection seats currently ??

 

[Dazzler]

You are comparing a family sedan with a sports car.

The same reason why you wont see the PLAAF using J20 for patrolling mission.

PDF THINK TANK: CONSULTANT?

You missed the point of my post entirely. Go through it and see if you can find something that you could correct. If not then Never mind.

 

[MastanKhan]

You are comparing a family sedan with a sports car.

The same reason why you wont see the PLAAF using J20 for patrolling mission.

PDF THINK TANK: CONSULTANT?

Hi,

Maybe I can add something---. There is no reason for the J20 to be patrolling anywhere---. That is the job of other aircraft---.

The F22 / F35 do not go on patrols---they go on missions---those missions are clandestine---.

When you go on a patrol---you get exposed---your electronic signature gets exposed---your radar signal gets exposed---.

And these are a no no for a 5th gen aircraft---where secrecy about these signatures is of prime concern---.

Now as for the availability---Gwadar is the ony outlet for china as of now---.

Whatever equipment we deem fit for our country---it is available to Pakistan---.

 

[GriffinsRule]

No pedestal fan anywhere else on the world ??

I think its retractable

 

[seesonic]

You missed the point of my post entirely. Go through it and see if you can find something that you could correct. If not then Never mind.

Feel free to rebut me.

Whatever equipment we deem fit for our country---it is available to Pakistan---.

Yea just like JF17 is designed by Pakistani engineers in Chengdu

 

[Dazzler]

Feel free to rebut me.

You are not worth it.

 

[seesonic]

You are not worth it.

SO much for "throwing slang unnecessarily"

 

[araz]

Feel free to rebut me.



Yea just like JF17 is designed by Pakistani engineers in Chengdu

If you have made a lofty remark like this without following up on what is or has been going on at Chegdu and the regular contingent of Pak Aeronautical engi eers that have been present there, then the onus is yours to prove that they have done nothing there and there input has not been a part of the JFT design. This is the second time you have just thrown things around to flame bait and we have been quiet. So now you are on our watch. Anymore rubbish off the topic talk and you are out.
A

 

[seesonic]

If you have made a lofty remark like this without following up on what is or has been going on at Chegdu and the regular contingent of Pak Aeronautical engi eers that have been present there, then the onus is yours to prove that they have done nothing there and there input has not been a part of the JFT design. This is the second time you have just thrown things around to flame bait and we have been quiet. So now you are on our watch. Anymore rubbish off the topic talk and you are out.
A

Yes i agree that Pak is deeply involved with the project. Why dont you prove me right? We can go both ways.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Honestly it was not my intention to attack anyone nor to harm anyone's feelings, and even if the Sino-Pakistani-relationship is surely something special, it is far from "China delivers all Pakistan wants" nor the same as it was years before. As such IMO to deduct anything from a F-7P being better equipped than their PLAAF-J-7-counterparts or Pakistan Army getting Z-10s is too far fetched. The J-20 is currently one of the strategically most important assets, it's pure high end and any sale has not only a military technical side but also a political. A J-20 with its extreme long range is pure overkill for Pakistan.

Therefore I agree with you my words were too harsh, but from all I know for the moment, by all political connections put into context and a comparison of the situation once to today I come to the conclusion, Pakistan should not hang too high hopes to get the J-20 but instead should better try to co-develop a smaller, lighter but surely not less advanced design.

Best,
Deino

I agree that Pakistan needs to develop with China a smaller/lighter(in comparison to J20...also single engine in my opinion) 5th gen aircraft, which can be acquired in numbers to eventually replace earlier blocks of JF17s and F16s(and eventually all of them...basically the next gen backbone of PAF much like the JF17 is today). I think that the project Azm may be something along those lines.

However I disagree with ur statement that J20 would be an overkill for Pak. Pakistan needs deep strike capabilities against India and India has a huge landmass. J20 would be excellent since it will put some of the farthest 'possible targets' within striking range. Moreover it would be better for Pak to operate J20 bcuz it will increases interoperability between Pak/China air forces vis-a-vis India(their common enemy in the subcontinent). It may possibly be even more economical since it will be built in huge numbers(R&D cost distributed over a large number of aircrafts, spare parts more readily available, etc.) as opposed to PAF acquiring FC31. Though this last point about the price is highly speculative on my part and only time will tell if it's true or not.

If Pak gets FC31 and China has already gotten J20, in my opinion it would be a blunder much like when the two deviated over JF17 and J10. I'm not saying this bcuz of my personal bias(though I admit I love J20 and would very much like to see it in PAF). I'm saying this based on the fact that China/Pak have a common enemy in the neighborhood, Pak doesn't oppose Chinese interests nor poses a threat in any way, and there's hardly any risk of PAF divulging info about critical Chinese tech to other nations.

 

[seesonic]

possibly be even more economical since it will be built in huge numbers(R&D cost distributed over a large number of aircrafts, spare parts more readily available, etc.) as opposed to PAF acquiring FC31.

neighborhood, Pak doesn't oppose Chinese interests nor poses a threat in any way, and there's hardly any risk of PAF divulging info about critical Chinese tech to other nations.

The saudi already invested in J31 project. Money isnt an issue.

Whether if there are any risk involved, only the chinese government will have an answer. Not you nor me. You cannot answer for the chinese government. Its pure speculation on your part.

 

[Cookie Monster]

The saudi already invested in J31 project. Money isnt an issue.

Whether if there are any risk involved, only the chinese government will have an answer. Not you nor me. You cannot answer for the chinese government. Its pure speculation on your part.

I never claimed that I have definite knowledge of that nor did I present any of what I said as facts. I merely wrote my opinion in response to an opinion of @Deino ...whatever u gleaned from it as FACTS is entirely on u

What u r claiming here about Saudis investing in FC31 and money not being an issue is also not a fact. I did read something about that here on PDF and it's just based on rumors. Neither the Chinese nor KSA have confirmed/announced anything regarding this.

 

[Cookie Monster]

"I'm saying this based on the fact that China/Pak have a common enemy in the neighborhood"

^^This above is exactly what I said. Do u see the word fact only used for this statement? Did u see me claiming anything else(speculations) besides this as a fact, in my post?

Is it not a fact that China and Pak have a common enemy in their neighborhood(India)?
...prove to me how this is not a fact