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JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 7]

Beta. (And I mean it with the utmost of respect). All wars in the subcontinent or any where else are a form of loss. The gravity of which needs to be understood in the context of the Russian incursion onto Afghanistan and the US trysts into Vietnam and Afghanistan. The problem is there is no plausible defence of your arguments as you do not have the material assetts or the national cohesion or the political or military will to take the losses necessary to achieve the ends. The ends in this equation need to be quantified. What are we trying to achieve? What is the end poont of this war ? You set those out and then work out how much money, manpower, resources, assetts and time you need to accrue them. Then you work out how your enemy will respond with similar acquisitions and other parameters. There are other external factors which you have to consider such as your support in the internatiknal political arena, can you sell your narrative to tbe world to justify your avgression, can you even find a supporter for your cause.
The " you have already lost the war" bit I will not respond to as other jingoistics individuals have always accused me of doing so.
Interestingly you have not looked atthe counternarrative and gauged it against your plan in light of assetts we have available as against the typical "we should get 400 planes from Laala land and exchange weed for weapons" bit.
Generally I do not indulge in frivulous debates but I do object to unnecessary indulgence into war mongering and the subsequent troll fest which ensues.
I have read the Quran and understand from a study into the Ahadeeth of the end of times and the life of ohr Prophet SAW to rightly or wrongly guage the times. The last thing we need at the moment is indulge in another war.
Rest is upto you. I will not engage in an argument with you as I simply lack the time. Whether you understand where I am coming from or not is upto you.
Kind regards.
A

Sir, first of all, thank you for all the patience you have shown and the detailed explanations you have given.

Presently, we are living in a situation where America and India are clamoring for war. Slowly, yet consistently, the grand plan is unfolding. Trump has thrown the gauntlet: bow down completely, or face attacks. The whole circus around Haqqani Network is a veiled, but direct warning to tow the American line completely, and unquestioningly. I guarantee this: if today Pakistan performs the following, the Haqqani network will disappear into thin air:

1. Dismantle our nuclear program.
2. Give up Kashmir once and for all.
3. Whittle down our armed forces, such that they remain only as a showpiece.

Note, none of this involves any action against a 'Haqqani Network'. After this, for good measure, they might divide us further into smaller countries such as Sind, Baluchistan, Punjab. KPK might be merged into Afghanistan.

Given this existential threat, we have the full right to at least discuss what it takes to reply to the enemy with such force that he will be left in multiple pieces, instead of us suffering such a fate. The good thing about such theoreticals is that they reveal gaps in capability. It shows young minds how much more we need to do.

Aerial warfare today, is a war of electronics and electro-magnetism. Gaining deep expertise in these areas is a matter of showing interest. I promise you, gather our brightest minds across the country immediately after Intermediate, and give them the task of acquiring deep expertise in electronics and electro-magnetism, both theoretical and practical. Within 5 years you will have hackers who can bloody Indian nose if hostilities escalate. We have the talent, they just need the right environment. The situation is bleak, but not beyond repair. What is needed is an optimistic approach.

I think point 3 is totally unrealistic ... Not possible even theoratically ... We need to understand that nobody is going to fight our war ,,, So China will not allow to use space and will help for nothing except for ensuring weapons supply for which we will be paying for decades ...

First two points are theoretically correct but given the high attrition rate and our small air force point no 1 do not exist in real world whereas even in real world growler or any like aircraft is not in our reach as of now ... So all theoretical assumptions only ... now peace ...

Growler not within our reach? How do you think they are going to counter the Rafale threat? Although not at par with Growler, we do have F-16s with Wild Weasel capabilities. Pictures have been shared on the forum with golden canopy Pakistani F-16s. The upcoming Thunder B version and Block 3 will definitely be looked at from this point of view.

China won't allow airspace? They are openly defending the likes of North Korea. I know how much common people hate North Korea in the West. I have seen the hate first hand. If China is willing to defend NK, and an Indian attack comes full scale, China will be providing you much more than airspace. That's because, unlike our leaders and governments, the Chinese are proactive. They understand their own security lies in a secure Pakistan, and a strong North Korea.
 
Sir, first of all, thank you for all the patience you have shown and the detailed explanations you have given.

Presently, we are living in a situation where America and India are clamoring for war. Slowly, yet consistently, the grand plan is unfolding. Trump has thrown the gauntlet: bow down completely, or face attacks. The whole circus around Haqqani Network is a veiled, but direct warning to tow the American line completely, and unquestioningly. I guarantee this: if today Pakistan performs the following, the Haqqani network will disappear into thin air:

1. Dismantle our nuclear program.
2. Give up Kashmir once and for all.
3. Whittle down our armed forces, such that they remain only as a showpiece.

Note, none of this involves any action against a 'Haqqani Network'. After this, for good measure, they might divide us further into smaller countries such as Sind, Baluchistan, Punjab. KPK might be merged into Afghanistan.

Given this existential threat, we have the full right to at least discuss what it takes to reply to the enemy with such force that he will be left in multiple pieces, instead of us suffering such a fate. The good thing about such theoreticals is that they reveal gaps in capability. It shows young minds how much more we need to do.

Aerial warfare today, is a war of electronics and electro-magnetism. Gaining deep expertise in these areas is a matter of showing interest. I promise you, gather our brightest minds across the country immediately after Intermediate, and give them the task of acquiring deep expertise in electronics and electro-magnetism, both theoretical and practical. Within 5 years you will have hackers who can bloody Indian nose if hostilities escalate. We have the talent, they just need the right environment. The situation is bleak, but not beyond repair. What is needed is an optimistic approach.



Brother, unfortunately, thanks to our leader they don't need to attack us we will kill ourselves internally... With the current economic situation and priorities of our leaders, we are already bank corrupt ...

I agree we need to work on strengthening our defense but right now more important is stabilization of economy and diplomacy ... we performed worst possible in diplomacy in recent years ,,, it cannot be worst then that ... leave aside economic and strategic interest of China in Pakistan we have a not a single close country other than Turkey ...

Sir, first of all, thank you for all the patience you have shown and the detailed explanations you have given.

Presently, we are living in a situation where America and India are clamoring for war. Slowly, yet consistently, the grand plan is unfolding. Trump has thrown the gauntlet: bow down completely, or face attacks. The whole circus around Haqqani Network is a veiled, but direct warning to tow the American line completely, and unquestioningly. I guarantee this: if today Pakistan performs the following, the Haqqani network will disappear into thin air:

1. Dismantle our nuclear program.
2. Give up Kashmir once and for all.
3. Whittle down our armed forces, such that they remain only as a showpiece.

Note, none of this involves any action against a 'Haqqani Network'. After this, for good measure, they might divide us further into smaller countries such as Sind, Baluchistan, Punjab. KPK might be merged into Afghanistan.

Given this existential threat, we have the full right to at least discuss what it takes to reply to the enemy with such force that he will be left in multiple pieces, instead of us suffering such a fate. The good thing about such theoreticals is that they reveal gaps in capability. It shows young minds how much more we need to do.

Aerial warfare today, is a war of electronics and electro-magnetism. Gaining deep expertise in these areas is a matter of showing interest. I promise you, gather our brightest minds across the country immediately after Intermediate, and give them the task of acquiring deep expertise in electronics and electro-magnetism, both theoretical and practical. Within 5 years you will have hackers who can bloody Indian nose if hostilities escalate. We have the talent, they just need the right environment. The situation is bleak, but not beyond repair. What is needed is an optimistic approach.



Growler not within our reach? How do you think they are going to counter the Rafale threat? Although not at par with Growler, we do have F-16s with Wild Weasel capabilities. Pictures have been shared on the forum with golden canopy Pakistani F-16s. The upcoming Thunder B version and Block 3 will definitely be looked at from this point of view.

China won't allow airspace? They are openly defending the likes of North Korea. I know how much common people hate North Korea in the West. I have seen the hate first hand. If China is willing to defend NK, and an Indian attack comes full scale, China will be providing you much more than airspace. That's because, unlike our leaders and governments, the Chinese are proactive. They understand their own security lies in a secure Pakistan, and a strong North Korea.
Mark my words China is not coming ... China is using north Korea to keep busy USA but in an actual war do you really think China will attach US CBG for saving NK ?
 
Mark my words China is not coming ... China is using north Korea to keep busy USA but in an actual war do you really think China will attach US CBG for saving NK ?

Wait and watch. God Forbid if things go that way, the cooperation will be close. Because once Pakistan/NK are taken out of the equation, China will be surrounded from all sides. They already don't have much leverage in the Buddhist majority S. E. Asia. The OBOR project is a way to create an ecosystem revolving around China. The economic linkage would have deeper significance than the military focused NATO.
 
Wait and watch. God Forbid if things go that way, the cooperation will be close. Because once Pakistan/NK are taken out of the equation, China will be surrounded from all sides. They already don't have much leverage in the Buddhist majority S. E. Asia. The OBOR project is a way to create an ecosystem revolving around China. The economic linkage would have deeper significance than the military focused NATO.
Yup but making your policy dependent on China is correct ? havent we learn from Afghan War ,,, we were much more important ally of US at that time which we currently are for China ...
 
Yup but making your policy dependent on China is correct ? havent we learn from Afghan War ,,, we were much more important ally of US at that time which we currently are for China ...

With CPEC, we have signed up to fight China's war for them. Denying this will not change reality. If CPEC achieves its strategic aims, you will be a Chinese insurance policy.
 
With CPEC, we have signed up to fight China's war for them. Denying this will not change reality. If CPEC achieves its strategic aims, you will be a Chinese insurance policy.
Yes but we did it as our insurance but what if china finds much more cheaper insurance and we become expensive similar to what happen between Pak and US after Afghan war
 
Yes but we did it as our insurance but what if china finds much more cheaper insurance and we become expensive similar to what happen between Pak and US after Afghan war

At this point we should be working day and night in unison to show the whole world that we are worthy as a nation. Let's not sell ourselves short.
 
we do have F-16s with Wild Weasel capabilities. Pictures have been shared on the forum with golden canopy Pakistani F-16s.
Golden canopy on F-16 does not indicates any wild weasel capability .... but we do have unknown number of AN/ALQ-173 (V) (link) and some unknown number of DRFM based jamming pods based on ALQ-211 family of electronic warfare systems.(link)
 
Myanmar and 3 aircraft for Nigeria
That's two customers more than none for India. Is the Tejas still on trailer. Not even the Indian air force wants it. Rejected by the Indan navy. You Indians are full of poo
 

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