JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 6]

[ssethii]

@Horus The power of background music.

 

[Arsalan]

Bro,
There was a reason behind asking about DAS and the future upgrades that could possibly be incorporated from the J-20. Any ways we should leave it here...

As far as Nishan is concerned I found him to be very stupid and idiotic person when he was active. I have been a visitor on this web site from 2004-05,though decided to join after 10 yrs when I could contribute.

In my opinion if PAF has to incorporate and invest $1 bil or more to enhance JF-17 they should opt for TFX as that would give them almost all the things you are suggesting.

Sir, there is no way DAS or such systems will be incorporated in JF-17, the current or the future blocks. JF-17 will have its own particular role in PAF. When we can get hold of these advanced technologies that will be in form of a proper separate fifth generation fighter. If we try to upgrade the JF to that level it will KILL the ideology behind this plane, not something PAC will be looking to do.

I wont comment about Nishan, however i am extremely sorry to say that your ambitions are not far off either

Mixing JFT future with some fifth generation fighter jet program, that is now how it will work. At best, we may see a radar INSPIRED by the radar of J31, based on that, not actually that same radar, some EW suits and that is about it. The actual upgrades that PAC seem to be looking at and what looks most sensible are the ones that will keep JFT is this same league it is now but will improve its performance in this. We are not going to make a stealth fighter out of JF-17 despite all the wishes. PAF want to keep the number up and JFT is planned to be inducted in numbers, something we wont be able to do with fifth generation fighters.
Anyway, this is a debate i feel will never come to a conclusion despite all the evidence and opinions present there.

 

[Nabeel Liaqat]

Can anyone tell me, if PAC made modifications on block 3 version like AESA, IFR & some other necessary changes that enhance the capability of JF-17 to 4.5 generation level then what will be the unit cost of Block 3 estimated? If all these modifications cost too much then PAF can also consider J-10B procurement.

 

[Arsalan]

Can anyone tell me, if PAC made modifications on block 3 version like AESA, IFR & some other necessary changes that enhance the capability of JF-17 to 4.5 generation level then what will be the unit cost of Block 3 estimated? If all these modifications cost too much then PAF can also consider J-10B procurement.

Surely we do not know the costs for sure but they are supposed to be in region of 35 mil with all these suggested upgrades. The thing is when you are building the plane at home and in number, the cost is not going to increase that much rapidly with ever technological advancement as it would if you are buying from export market.

And no, PAF looks committed to JFT project and we will see it gradually evolving and maturing as time passes. The plane have HUGE potential both for PAF as well as for PAC (export orders) and it is good that the authorities are committed to exploiting that potential to the full. No point in replacing this project with any of the shelf imported plane.

 

[Tempest II]

Looking at where/how the like of the Mig-29 to Mig-35, F-16 Block 10 To Block 60, the Flankers, the F-15s and the F-18s have evolved over the years, it is impossible to say where the JF-17 will be in 15 or 20 years .

Radar for Block is said to be derived from J-10B. That was announced at PAS15. Certain systems and technologies we can be more certain than others that they will be/will not be in Block 3.

However the selling point of the JF-17 is that it still has a looooong way to go - i.e. that it still has a lot of development/upgrade potential ahead of it. Countries buying the fighter now want to see it flying in 30 years time. If sells hit the projected 300 to 500 planes, then deliveries will still be going on 10 years from now. That is 2025. Add 30 years, then we will be in 2050/2055. Quite a lot will have changed. From materials, engine performance, weapon systems and sensors.

Consider even the Jf-17 from 10 years ago and what we have today? The same, if not more changes and progress should be expected as we go forward.

 

[MastanKhan]

Sir, there is no way DAS or such systems will be incorporated in JF-17, the current or the future blocks. JF-17 will have its own particular role in PAF. When we can get hold of these advanced technologies that will be in form of a proper separate fifth generation fighter. If we try to upgrade the JF to that level it will KILL the ideology behind this plane, not something PAC will be looking to do.

I wont comment about Nishan, however i am extremely sorry to say that your ambitions are not far off either

Mixing JFT future with some fifth generation fighter jet program, that is now how it will work. At best, we may see a radar INSPIRED by the radar of J31, based on that, not actually that same radar, some EW suits and that is about it. The actual upgrades that PAC seem to be looking at and what looks most sensible are the ones that will keep JFT is this same league it is now but will improve its performance in this. We are not going to make a stealth fighter out of JF-17 despite all the wishes. PAF want to keep the number up and JFT is planned to be inducted in numbers, something we wont be able to do with fifth generation fighters.
Anyway, this is a debate i feel will never come to a conclusion despite all the evidence and opinions present there.

Hi,

Thank you for the post-----. The beauty of a Toyota Corolla is that it is what it was designed for----that is where it will stay---it will never become a Toyota Camry or a Toyota Avalon-----.

Like the F16---it is what it is------there is no stealth version of F 16-----it has a stair step increment of technology---but other than that---the plane is the same.

 

[RAMPAGE]

@Oscar

The South African HMD for JF-17 is Cobra or Archer?

 

[Arsalan]

Hi,

Thank you for the post-----. The beauty of a Toyota Corolla is that it is what it was designed for----that is where it will stay---it will never become a Toyota Camry or a Toyota Avalon-----.

Like the F16---it is what it is------there is no stealth version of F 16-----it has a stair step increment of technology---but other than that---the plane is the same.

Exacly!

Even though as @Tempest II have suggested, the plane still have a long way to go. There surely will be massive improvements and upgrades, ranging from radar to avionics, EW suite, weapons systems, engine and all this is actually THE SELLING point of JF-17, even to PAF. Air force can keep this plane operation and effective for many years to come by necessary up gradation which thanks to its open architecture design will be relatively easy. HOWEVER, using the terms you used, the corolla will essentially remain a corolla, better engine comfy interior, improved gadgets, luxury looks are the things that are brought in in every successive model but it essentially remains a corolla. Just like that there are some systems that are likely or unlikely to be incorporated in JF-17 future. Sure we cannot be 100% certain about that but logical thinking make us point out a few systems that are likely to be brought in in next blocks, an AESA radar, better engine, dual rack for missiles, then may be better EW suite, an IRST?? These are the things MOST likely to be incorporated in future blocks. Then there are things that are UNLIKELY to be incorporated in JFT ever, unlikely I say, things like internal weapon bay, a laser gun? A heavily modified structure to make it a STEALTH plane!! IF PAF needs these and PAC can make this, it will be a new plane. I mean why we overlook the possibility that by the time we will get these technologies may be we will want PAC to make us a new plane, if that ever is the case/requirement. However putting everything into the JFT won’t work well and thankfully PAC and PAF both seem to be in agreement on this, let the JF-17 be what it is.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

Well here is the thing that is different now than what it was when F 16 was born was technology-----. The F 16 changed with the changing technology----okay----the thing is that the technology for conventional 4 and 4.5 gen. aircraft has reached close to its peak.

With the current Aesa radar and electronics warfare packages that are available now-----a few years down the road---the difference in tech may be capped and will not be as great as the F 16 A B to the Blk 52---because we are very close to the peak of the technology plateau for these 4 and 4.5 gen aircraft.

Were the change will occur in is the air to air bvr missiles----off bore site missile----jammers--engine some what---anti radar paint-----.

So---basically the Blk 3 would be the 10 year package unless there is a drastic break through in technology.


@Arsalan

To do all those things----we know that aircraft is called J 31.

 

[Arsalan]

Hi,

Well here is the thing that is different now than what it was when F 16 was born was technology-----. The F 16 changed with the changing technology----okay----the thing is that the technology for conventional 4 and 4.5 gen. aircraft has reached close to its peak.

With the current Aesa radar and electronics warfare packages that are available now-----a few years down the road---the difference in tech may be capped and will not be as great as the F 16 A B to the Blk 52---because we are very close to the peak of the technology plateau for these 4 and 4.5 gen aircraft.

Were the change will occur in is the air to air bvr missiles----off bore site missile----jammers--engine some what---anti radar paint-----.

So---basically the Blk 3 would be the 10 year package unless there is a drastic break through in technology.


@Arsalan

To do all those things----we know that aircraft is called J 31.

True, calling all that a JF-17 next block is wrong. That will essentially be a new plane, ALMOST SURELY to be based on J31, If there is any made by PAC. Else it is more likely that we will buy J31 directly and incorporate SOME of its technologies in JF-17 upgrades to make it a better 4, 4.5 generation plane.

 

[volatile]

I have a point ,Will JF-17 will be as effective in 2030 with advent of 5th Gen fighter flying like bees

 

[ali_raza]

I have a point ,Will JF-17 will be as effective in 2030 with advent of 5th Gen fighter flying like bees

it isn't required to

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

I have a point ,Will JF-17 will be as effective in 2030 with advent of 5th Gen fighter flying like bees

The roles would have changed... Even now JF-17 is designed to be an aircraft that can deny India any Air Superiority over Pakistan. For this particular role the aircraft would be made in numbers and would also be updated till a replacement is not attained.

 

[Tempest II]

I have a point ,Will JF-17 will be as effective in 2030 with advent of 5th Gen fighter flying like bees

In the Jf-17's target markets and likely wars, what percentage of planes will be 5th Gen? It is competing with Gripen, F-16, Mig-29, Teas and KIA FA-50. It will largely be competing with these anyway. Should it find itself against higher order fighters, the military planners involved will have failed or found themselves in the wrong league.

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

After the sucess of F-16 Niswar, I present you Pakistani Pathan's pride ...
The JF-17 Niswar, Hits Hard.

Not suitable for children like Tejas ...