LonE_WolF
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View attachment 143582
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View attachment 143582
now with triple racket
You started out making excellent points but then the above sort of changed that strategic impression IMO. 18 or 45 or 70 -16's is a good force. But you need to start looking around, you are going to be facing 150-200 MKI's, about 40 Mirage 2000's, Mig 21's and then strike platforms like Jags, Mig 27's, etc. ALL BVR ready (add LCA and Rafale later with PakFa).
Do you think 70 -16's are a good cut to defend an entire country? If the JFT B-II were operational, I could see some change, 70 -16's with 100 JFT's Block II so really a defending force of 170 BVR ready jets backed up by F-7's and older Mirages, etc for point defense role.
The PAF needs to double up the number of its -16's sort of immediately and those have to be ready for BVR. Many options exist. Or get a few squadrons from the Chinese (J-11) or even J-10B (BVR ready). What you are missing is the numbers of 4th gen platforms. The 4th gen platform need to really be around 400 jets within the PAF, no matter how you look at it, if you want a decent air force able to deter and counter the above scenario. Plus, add 3-4 squadrons of Stealth jets. So really around 400 4th+ Gen and 60-100 5th Gen. The PAF needs to invest into SAM's, sort of last year and its late. SAM systems (credible ones) in numbers and defense tiers throughout the country is another major need. In the future, you could have a hostile Iran and Afghanistan to watch out for as well.
I know you are financially unstable but the country need to unite and run after whoever is selected to run the country and let them bring about economic changes, many large projects are pending. That could if completed, give you a few billions to go buy these necessities. But your political system (specially oppositions) have no care or respect for the national security of the country. Seems like everyone just wants to kick out whoever is in the seat without giving them the change to fulfill their agenda and let the system cleanup for you.
Btw, Saudi's are forming good economic ties with India. They won't give you -15's. At the max, may be some UAV's, munitions, AWACS / Recon support but that's it.
You started out making excellent points but then the above sort of changed that strategic impression IMO. 18 or 45 or 70 -16's is a good force. But you need to start looking around, you are going to be facing 150-200 MKI's, about 40 Mirage 2000's, Mig 21's and then strike platforms like Jags, Mig 27's, etc. ALL BVR ready (add LCA and Rafale later with PakFa).
Do you think 70 -16's are a good cut to defend an entire country? If the JFT B-II were operational, I could see some change, 70 -16's with 100 JFT's Block II so really a defending force of 170 BVR ready jets backed up by F-7's and older Mirages, etc for point defense role.
The PAF needs to double up the number of its -16's sort of immediately and those have to be ready for BVR. Many options exist. Or get a few squadrons from the Chinese (J-11) or even J-10B (BVR ready). What you are missing is the numbers of 4th gen platforms. The 4th gen platform need to really be around 400 jets within the PAF, no matter how you look at it, if you want a decent air force able to deter and counter the above scenario. Plus, add 3-4 squadrons of Stealth jets. So really around 400 4th+ Gen and 60-100 5th Gen. The PAF needs to invest into SAM's, sort of last year and its late. SAM systems (credible ones) in numbers and defense tiers throughout the country is another major need. In the future, you could have a hostile Iran and Afghanistan to watch out for as well.
I know you are financially unstable but the country need to unite and run after whoever is selected to run the country and let them bring about economic changes, many large projects are pending. That could if completed, give you a few billions to go buy these necessities. But your political system (specially oppositions) have no care or respect for the national security of the country. Seems like everyone just wants to kick out whoever is in the seat without giving them the change to fulfill their agenda and let the system cleanup for you.
Btw, Saudi's are forming good economic ties with India. They won't give you -15's. At the max, may be some UAV's, munitions, AWACS / Recon support but that's it.
One thing, most of the people on this forum are agreed is thatI think the PAF needs to lease or purchase either J-11's or -15's, I think they can obtain either. Both China and the KSA influence can help if financial backing can exist, armed by AMRAAMS or in J-11s case, SD-10 (or black market Archer?), these can serve as a good option for now.
JFT needs to come up to speed rather quickly with IFR probe, better avionics and multi-hard point racks for SD-10's. That's very critical. Also, its sad to see that Pakistan doesn't have indigenous built SAM system yet? A medium to long range SAM system proliferated in layers across the border would definitely help.
The PN is a different story all together. I think they need a total of 3-4 squadrons but due to money issues, they are asking for 30 jets. A better situation would be 4 squadrons. 2 can be JFT's and the other 2 can be either used Mirage 2000's or J-10's or J-15's if the PN can get them. Even in PN's case, you still need a hi-lo as you'll be facing Mig-29 MK's with Harriers, Jags supported by Mirages from the land based IN stations.
I think the least the PAF can do, is to go shopping for used -15's or J-11/15's. If these don't become a reality than sizable number of -16's ADF or used Block 40 or more for immediate BVR engagement capability. With the -16's. you'll need 200 of these, supported by 250 advance JFT could do the trick but still single engine platform without the ability to be a missile truck.
Pianrha B chances are more then A darter
however Prianha B is also developed from A darter
Around a year or two ago, I happened to stumble upon an article on IAF. The article mentioned that Indian Pilots had more positive view on Mirages than MKI. I didn't believe it at first hand but when I listened to the views of IdAF pilots about their Mirage IIIs and Vs, I was fairly convinced that how great a platform mirage really is. If IAF is to conduct a strike, Mirage will be the weapon of choice IMHO, because the way Mirage plays into the hand of a pilot, no other aircraft really comes close. MKI, well I think they will more be used as escorts and interceptors. But the most capable strike platform in IAF's arsenal is Mirage (IMHO).You have conveniently ignored the fact that JF-17 is not being inducted as a supplement but rather as replacement for the likes of F-7 and Mirages...... it's naive to assume that all of India's missions will be carried out by MKI.....since that's allegedly your best platform.
Both are almost same A darter have better range ... So Better to go of with the one which bring TOTWhich one is better?
Not really. During the sanctions saga of 1990s, they were more than happy to supply Agostas, refit/support for older Agostas/Daphne, and take on the ROSE project. So much so, that after their 11 men were killed in that brutal bus bombing, they did not leave, but rather continued to work. Even if today, Pakistan grabbed those Mirages, French would still supply. Hey, India has not even signed the Rafale deal yet. If they had sold the avionics, they would have made 1.5 billion USD already......I am sure they are having second thoughts about the decision.
Agreed, but Mirage2000-9 still cuts it very close, not to mention in the ground attack/anti ship role.
Unless the Government releases 4-5 billion USD today, that is not going to happen. There are some privatizations coming up to beef up government coffers, you may never know though. My bet is, keep the F-16s as it is, go after the UAE Mirages as they become available, and get J-11 for Maritime role, based in Karachi/Gwader. JF-17 can continue to evolve. But it is much easier said than done.
* We won't be having a full scale war with India. It will escelate beyond control.
* Iran will not become an enemy.
* We can take care of Afghanistan with a squadron of F-7PGs alone.
* We need no help from the Saudis. Its actually good. If they don't fight for us, we wont fight for them..
We need to understand modi is in trouble in India, as the Eco agenda that he was elected is not in sight. Cooperate India is distancing it self from him n he had calculated on all out support of u.s has not be forthcoming to the extent that he was banking upon as the U.s is not in a position economicly to support it.
India Eco is going down at a fast pace, with its current gdp of 4 some percent is simply not good enough to sustain it.
So to hide it all as a fail safe he is stirring trouble with Pakistan n the Indian govt along with a media is adapting a gingoistic attitude towards Pakistan. Plus it's preparing its population mentally for war with Pakistan. Just read n watch their media n u will know wt I am talking about.
As a last resort when all else is lost, I think India will stage A false flag opp in India n will blame it on Pak, n will launch limited opp/air strikes in Pakistan. This will go too far n will result in a response from Pakistan n will lead to a full scale war.
It is weakness n non existence response from both a military n diplomatic stand point that is making India bolder by the day n weak in their n their allies eyes.
Like fire, one can only ignite a war, but then war takes its own course. 1965, an operation in MJK led to a war on international border. This is only an assumption that we will have a confined conflict henceforth. When chips are down, people can get really desperate.* We won't be having a full scale war with India. It will escelate beyond control.
Well a clash with Iran is inevitable. Iran is no longer the Iran it used to be in Shah's time. Now Iran has its own regional agenda and if you don't fit in, they wont do you any favors. The only non-hostile border of Pakistan today is China.* Iran will not become an enemy.
Again you're seriously underestimating Afghanis. The way I see it, ISAF will maintain some air assets in Afghanistan because the ISIS epidemic is sure to reach Afghanistan sooner or later and ISAF can't risk a Iraq type collapse of Afghan army to ISIS+Talibans. Plus Afghanistan was discussing a purchase of Block 50/52 F-16s a while ago. that factor cant be simply shrugged off because US will adequately (Not to the teeth but still) arm Afghan air force with some good assets and F-16 would be the weapon of choice because of its versatility.* We can take care of Afghanistan with a squadron of F-7PGs alone.
Then you shouldn't have been jumping up and down on Saudis showing interest in JFT (Which was more of another of their favor to Pakistan)* We need no help from the Saudis. Its actually good. If they don't fight for us, we wont fight for them.
BVR has now become a standard weapon, days of BVR being a tech edge are long gone. Now henceforth every platform flying will be a BVR capable platform.* I agree that PAF needs a healthy fleet for 400 BVR fighters.