JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 6]

[Tempest II]

JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 5] | Page 55
Please read post no 813
Present engine on JF-17, the RD-93 is 98 KN

I am agreeing with you. I got the higher TWR from a PAF pilot in 2010. I had asked about the engine thrust but he quoted me the TWR.

 

[Tempest II]

Here is my post from July 2010 quoting the same 1:1.1.

 

[VCheng]

View attachment 121140
Here is my post from July 2014 quoting the same 1:1.1.

And yet there has never been a flight demonstration of that claim with a vertical climb from level flight near stall speed.

 

[Tempest II]

And yet there has never been a flight demonstration of that claim with a vertical climb from level flight near stall speed.

Apparently! Allegedly!

 

[VCheng]

Apparently!

That is why I said earlier that such claims can at best be regarded as "unproven" for now. Now, it may be a conscious decision to keep the ambiguity going, but that is another aspect entirely.

 

[Tempest II]

Check 5:40

 

[VCheng]

Check 5:40

Seen that. It is not vertical, not from near stall speed, and there is a camera change that changes perspective.

 

[HRK]

And yet there has never been a flight demonstration of that claim with a vertical climb from level flight near stall speed.

Is it necessary to demonstrate everything for 'Fanboys' who are debating at an internet forum .... ???

Are we that important ..... ???

Plz connect the dots

1- We had this information of 98KN available since Dubai Air show (Klimov poster), but somehow 'we' choose to ignore it at that time for 'further confirmation'.

2- We know that Pakistan has rejected the offer of upgraded RD-93MA in favor of current engine.

3- I think ACM Tahir Rafiq Butt (or some other PAF official) on record express the satisfaction of PAF with the performance of RD-93 engine in an interview.

4- 200% stress test of JF-17 in China without the change of engine was the indication of 'utilized' engine power, but we at the forum took it as the indication of upgradation for block-II.

5- Before the stress test in China, if we recall the incident of only crash of JF-17 flying above the 'official' Mach limit of 1.6 at that time.

So in short we can say that it was our failure to connect the dots available within the bigger picture.

 

[VCheng]

Is it necessary to demonstrate everything for 'Fanboys' who are debating at an internet forum .... ???

Are we that important ..... ???

Plz connect the dotes

1- We had this information of 98KN available since Dubai Air show (Klimov poster), but somehow 'we' choose to ignore it at that time for 'further confirmation'.

2- We know that Pakistan has rejected the offer of upgraded RD-93MA in favor of current engine.

3- I think ACM Tahir Rafiq Butt (or some other PAF official) on record express the satisfaction of PAF with the performance of RD-93 engine in an interview.

4- 200% stress test of JF-17 in China without the change of engine was the indication of 'utilized' engine power, but we at the forum took it as the indication of upgradation for block-II.

5- Before the stress test in China, if we recall the incident of only crash of JF-17 flying above the 'official' Mach limit of 1.6 at that time.

So in short we can say that it was our failure to connect the dots available within the bigger picture.

Those are just "dotes", but I have already mentioned that it may be a conscious decision to keep the ambiguity going. That is another aspect entirely, but it also means that the claims must be regarded as "unproven".

 

[Irfan Baloch]

@Najam Khan sorry babu, JF-17 is a missed opportunity
even a strafe run by it would have been good, its a token thing anyway.
its being flight tested yea? why not employ the real environment.
ok not on a HVT but there are many opportunities where a place needs to be leveled for example to deny TTP an ambush location

even just a fight over the operation area will far better than flying it over training areas.

a fellow officer did mention F-16 and JF-17s but he is an infantry man and I doubt he had the chance to make out what plane it was at such height and he is already in the operation so wont have seen it landing or taking off.
by the way you must admit

PAF marketing sucks *** as much as the POF does. they can do wonders if they let the professionals that excel in that field do their job (first hurdle is to employ them).

Hi Munir,

In the end it confirms that INTEGRATION is a long and tedious process---specially for a FIRST TIME SYSTEM.

I like the display of a cloak of uncertainty around the JF17----.

so it shows that marketing for export is premature when the plane hasn't even passed the phase of "dumb bombs".

 

[Munir]

@MastanKhan There are any systems and subsystems. Inch my inch they have to test it to the limits and sometimes beyond. IT indeed takes lot of patient to go from Yf16 to F16A to F16cb52 to F16b60... Same goes for Gripen... And it does explain that India wants it badly to be part of it but gets freaked out when everytime it just is not enough for them to accept. We did not have lower expectations but we have different roadmap. And we are fully committed to it while one needs to ask that for DRDO, HAL or the Indian forces.

 

[alimobin memon]

if its 98kn does that mean jf17 can now fly at mach 1.8 atleast ?

 

[Lil Mathew]

Is it necessary to demonstrate everything for 'Fanboys' who are debating at an internet forum .... ???

Are we that important ..... ???

Plz connect the dots

1- We had this information of 98KN available since Dubai Air show (Klimov poster), but somehow 'we' choose to ignore it at that time for 'further confirmation'.

2- We know that Pakistan has rejected the offer of upgraded RD-93MA in favor of current engine.

3- I think ACM Tahir Rafiq Butt (or some other PAF official) on record express the satisfaction of PAF with the performance of RD-93 engine in an interview.

4- 200% stress test of JF-17 in China without the change of engine was the indication of 'utilized' engine power, but we at the forum took it as the indication of upgradation for block-II.

5- Before the stress test in China, if we recall the incident of only crash of JF-17 flying above the 'official' Mach limit of 1.6 at that time.

So in short we can say that it was our failure to connect the dots available within the bigger picture.

1). Klimov poster only says the thrust range.. That means engine can be upgraded to 98 KN without changing its engine core (advanced metallurgy is the key)..That doesn't mean jf17 current engines are 98KN..
You can visit Klimov website.. It clearly says now the RD33 family consists of 8000-9000kgf engines .. Also that high thrust 9000 kgf (88 KN) RD33 family engine is most latest improved version RD33MK used in mig 35[can be upgraded to 98KN].. The russians really boasting of the 7% thrust increase in RD33MK, which is done by the use of cooled blades made of latest tech modern materials including composites..
China has no authority to upgrade RD33 engine.. But can repair, overhaul it.. So they can overclock the engine to a higher thrust (may be upto 94-95 KN) but in an expense of other performance especially its service life..
2).Russians offered improved engine clearly means proposed RD33MA is better than current RD93.. Value for money (values added by the money spending) or cost may be the reason..
3). PAF have no more options ( money and suppliers).. So they are satisfied..
4). How can an aircraft tested 200% stress using an engine?? Generally done as follows..

During stress tests, parts of the airplane are pushed, pulled, and twisted by hydraulic jacks. This series of tests called “destruct sequences.”
The tests were incremental. First, they put to “limit load.” This is a test that simulates the most extreme conditions expected in the life of the airplane..
These test tests positive and negetive maneuverability, emergency landing, extreme maneuvers,engine out response etc..

 

[Shadow_Hunter]

@MastanKhan There are any systems and subsystems. Inch my inch they have to test it to the limits and sometimes beyond. IT indeed takes lot of patient to go from Yf16 to F16A to F16cb52 to F16b60... Same goes for Gripen... And it does explain that India wants it badly to be part of it but gets freaked out when everytime it just is not enough for them to accept. We did not have lower expectations but we have different roadmap. And we are fully committed to it while one needs to ask that for DRDO, HAL or the Indian forces.

Since the Indians have placed more orders for their LCA than you have for JF17, you need not worry about our commitment to it. You only need to worry about your own product, which has failed to impress everybody but the PAF.

 

[MastanKhan]

If such infinitely linear improvements were possible (as proposed by Munir) then the Model T Ford engine could have been tweaked to power the Lambhorghini Gallardo.........
@Mastan Khan; knowing automobiles as you do.....can that be done??

Even Frank Whittle's jet-engine will not be used to power a drone now.

Hi,

You have to meet a certain threshold of technology to do that----the model T could be boosted to 10% to 20% or more---as was evident by the racing models of 30's 40's 50's.

In current years---let us take the 90's till now----I have seen Honda civic 1.6 L engines modified to 300---400---500 HP---where the original engine was 130 HP.

Take the Mazda RX 7 1.4 L rotary----the rotary engine taken from 150 HP and 10000 RPM redline to close to a 1000 HP's and 18000 RPM + redline.

If you can do some research----you will be shocked to find out what kind of HP the little Japanese racing motorcycle engines were producing in the 60---.

10% increase in out put is nothing now a days on modern engines----and that is just done by tweaking / replacing the computer brain on the newer cars.

Engine modifications and increase in power is like a billion dollar automotive industry in the u s.

All these modifications are coming from the end users and then these end users start selling their own modification kits.