JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 6]

[Tempest II]

The article also says TWO something which I have said before:

1. The starting specifications at the origins of this project will have changed with the times and so if the final end product.
2. That the PAF replaced a ground attack squadron does not mean the JF-17 is necessarily a ground attack place. The quadron's role has been redefined ro reflect the more capable plane they now have.

 

[VCheng]

Yes it is very possible. Jet engine design inherently is very expandable. Sometimes you cannot push it to that ultimate level due to various reasons, primary being materials and their construction. You would be surprised to know how much a Jet engine can be improved upon. Take for example the Rolls Royce RB211 turbo fan, which spawned the Trent family powering anything from A330/A340 to A380/787 dreamliner, 40 years on from when the original engine was put to use.

Yes, you are correct, which is why I specifically said "for China or Pakistan to realize with their level of expertise". If Klimov makes those claims, they would be entirely believable. A Pakistani mouthpiece? Not so much.

If such infinitely linear improvements were possible (as proposed by Munir) then the Model T Ford engine could have been tweaked to power the Lambhorghini Gallardo.........
@Mastan Khan; knowing automobiles as you do.....can that be done??

Even Frank Whittle's jet-engine will not be used to power a drone now.

Perhaps the engineering crew aboard the Star Trek can tune the Model T engine to that extent. Ustaad Bhola in Bhati Gate? Not so much.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Perhaps the engineering crew aboard the Star Trek can tune the Model T engine to that extent.

Yes, that is within the realm of possibility........
Just as I just got to read the amusingly imaginative explanation here; of the moniker "Farmer" that the NATO bestowed upon the MiG....
So the venerable MiG-21 got labelled "Fishbed" by NATO because of some connection to oyster-beds?
Or the MiG-27's NATO call-sign of "Flogger" has some probable connection to punishments in Soviet Gulags?
Where did the "Fulcrum" name come from then; to be "Candid"?

 

[Hyperion]

Agreed. Very logical reasoning indeed. Specially the "one sided battle" part.

Hi,

Why do you pak kids have this FETISH with the sale of this aircraft----. The abilities and capabilities of this aircraft won't decrease or increase with the sale.

I think this goes with another FETISH that paks have----they have to ask every visitor how they liked their country.

As for why this aircraft is not being used for ground strike missions against the TTP----that raises multiple red flags---the first three sqdrn's were touted to be ground strike specific.

This was the perfect time to prove that the JF 17 was a functional aircraft---what better advertisement than actual combat ground strike missions to prove your point and display on the sales brochure.

The other deduction would be that this aircraft is not ready for any role at this time as it is still supposedly going thru integration.

And the last but least accepetable reason for the pak members of this board----this aircraft is still not capable to perform even in a one sided battle---this aircraft is still living on a hype---at what other time in actual war that this aircraft would be facing such little odds of being shot down by the enemy.

 

[Munir]

Though dual rack is not an target at the moment for block 2 JF17, the next block will have a dual SD10A launcher. Just like HMS and 4th gen WVR. That is already part of the next production version. Cannot say more but it does explain improved wingstructure. Besides that heavier ground stores (ra'ad AKG etc) will be on wing stations.

 

[Donatello]

Yes, you are correct, which is why I specifically said "for China or Pakistan to realize with their level of expertise". If Klimov makes those claims, they would be entirely believable. A Pakistani mouthpiece? Not so much.

You won't hear Klimov making any claims because:
1-Russian Defense firms are not that vocal
2-They don't want to specify the improvements for a foreign fighter that underscores the future market of their own Mig 29/35s
3-Since they have already offered an advanced version (RD93MA), specific for JF-17, it proves they are willing to increase their effort and engine performance. PAF is expected to have 200 JF-17s, along with extra engines. Not to mention any exports 5 years from now. That is much bigger engine market, compared to what they would get from low or no sales of Mig29s.

Important information about JF-17 would never be released. Exact engine performance, radar etc. So whatever comes out in public, we can believe it, if from official sources. The sanctions on Russia doesn't help their potential weapons sales anyway. So firms like Klimov are desperate to sell anything. They refused to bow in to Indian demands. Why????

 

[Donatello]

If such infinitely linear improvements were possible (as proposed by Munir) then the Model T Ford engine could have been tweaked to power the Lambhorghini Gallardo.........
@Mastan Khan; knowing automobiles as you do.....can that be done??

Even Frank Whittle's jet-engine will not be used to power a drone now.

Why are you even commenting, when you have no idea what the discussion is?

BTW, for your information, the Otto cycle engine is the basis for majority of internal combustion, motor vehicle engines. Please tell me how much has the principles of operation of an engine changed since the 19th century, more than 100 years ago? Yes you've added Fuel Injectors and Common rail diesels, added geeky electronics, turbos etc? But how much efficiency? 30%? We've been stuck there for a long time.

Does not mean that we have stop extracting more horses and torque out if though.


Frank Whittle's specific jet engine may not be used, but it's direct descendants can be. There is a limit to what you can extract, but if you are not there yet, why not keep trying? I'd suggest keep the Ford Model T out of the Jet Engine league.

As i said, please read up on the Rolls Royce RB211 or CFM56 engines and their evolution.

 

[VCheng]

You won't hear Klimov making any claims because:
1-Russian Defense firms are not that vocal
2-They don't want to specify the improvements for a foreign fighter that underscores the future market of their own Mig 29/35s
3-Since they have already offered an advanced version (RD93MA), specific for JF-17, it proves they are willing to increase their effort and engine performance. PAF is expected to have 200 JF-17s, along with extra engines. Not to mention any exports 5 years from now. That is much bigger engine market, compared to what they would get from low or no sales of Mig29s.

Important information about JF-17 would never be released. Exact engine performance, radar etc. So whatever comes out in public, we can believe it, if from official sources. The sanctions on Russia doesn't help their potential weapons sales anyway. So firms like Klimov are desperate to sell anything. They refused to bow in to Indian demands. Why????

All fair points, which is why claims regarding the engine and overall performance of the JF-17 are at best called "unproven".

 

[Donatello]

All fair points, which is why claims regarding the engine and overall performance of the JF-17 are at best called "unproven".

Let's let it be unproven, for us. Those who work on it, fly it, would know better, right?

As time dictates, we will know more. Yes it is exciting to see all goodies in one go, but that is not possible. It's a major undertaking by Pakistan, so better to do a good job, first time. There are some epic failures on our east, which we definitely don't want.

 

[VCheng]

Let's let it be unproven, for us. Those who work on it, fly it, would know better, right?

As time dictates, we will know more. Yes it is exciting to see all goodies in one go, but that is not possible. It's a major undertaking by Pakistan, so better to do a good job, first time. There are some epic failures on our east, which we definitely don't want.

Of course. There is no rush for information. All in good time.

 

[Munir]

@Capt.Popeye : Are you making fun of me? I did not say use the Wright brothers engine to produce a PW220... I am not going to arrogant but you do sound not that wise to me. 9000 posts. 10.000 thanks. Elite member... I am impressed but not by those numbers but by your logic.

 

[Tempest II]

All fair points, which is why claims regarding the engine and overall performance of the JF-17 are at best called "unproven".

Where have you got it “proven” that the RD-33/RD-93 is 84kN to validate that the 98kN is “unproven”?

 

[datalibdaz]

Where have you got it “proven” that the RD-33/RD-93 is 84kN to validate that the 98kN is “unproven”?

JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 5] | Page 55
Please read post no 813
Present engine on JF-17, the RD-93 is 98 KN

 

[Donatello]

@Capt.Popeye : Are you making fun of me? I did not say use the Wright brothers engine to produce a PW220... I am not going to arrogant but you do sound not that wise to me. 9000 posts. 10.000 thanks. Elite member... I am impressed but not by those numbers but by your logic.

More like lack of logical reasoning. But since when did that matter?

 

[VCheng]

Where have you got it “proven” that the RD-33/RD-93 is 84kN to validate that the 98kN is “unproven”?

I am only going by published figures by Klimov and in Jane's.