JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 6]

[VCheng]

Did that at Dubai Air Show. After deploying speed brakes at the end of a maneuver, the plane goes near stall speed and from there full thrust to go ballistic, with onlookers scanning for the sky.

Any video link Sir? Going up vertically is the key, not merely a steep climb.

 

[Tempest II]

Any video link Sir? Going up vertically is the key, not merely a steep climb.

Here Pakistan Air Force - JF 17 Thunder Performance at…:

from 5 min 39 seconds

 

[Donatello]

Any video link Sir? Going up vertically is the key, not merely a steep climb.

Well, the closest to a steep climb/going vertical video of JF-17 is this:

If you watch the whole video, it does show good aerobatic performance, evidence of adequate thrust. I don't know what are the exact figures for RD93 on JF-17 or what settings did the pilot use.

 

[VCheng]

Here Pakistan Air Force - JF 17 Thunder Performance at…:

from 5 min 39 seconds

Pretty impressive, although not quite as convincing as true vertical climb form near stall without a camera cut.

 

[PakEye]

this is youtube video not working in pakistan please give its link addrss

 

[monitor]

Well, the closest to a steep climb/going vertical video of JF-17 is this:

If you watch the whole video, it does show good aerobatic performance, evidence of adequate thrust. I don't know what are the exact figures for RD93 on JF-17 or what settings did the pilot use.

But in this and other video JF-17 flown without any any load so can we sure with its payload its maneuverability would as in videos

 

[fatman17]

But in this and other video JF-17 flown without any any load so can we sure with its payload its maneuverability would as in videos

pls dont worry on our behalf.....

 

[Basel]

Sea hawk aircrafts launched air strikes from vikrant which is stationed 112km away..
Here mig29 range is 500km for these type of missions.. So our AC required to be statined that much farther..

Things have changed since 1971, now JF-17 will be able to engage your Mig-29s from 100 km away.

one hypothetical question: If JF-17 is fitted with GE-414 engine or similar class western engine what benefits & capabilities it will add to it?

 

[Munir]

PAF/PAC/China is not showing every improvement to everyone. But the latest article in Combat Aircraft shows what was known in the "insiders" group. The engine has been a big issue in the beginning but has been tackled very smartly. While the first few had the good old RD93 with direct relation to the infamous smokey RD33 (changed gearbox and more thrust) the production examples were already improved. I have shown you guys pipes coming out of the exhaust. This was one of the improvement to reduce smoke by bypassing the chambers and dump fuel. Similar as the AL31... The block 2 had the need for more stores to become near F16 block52 so the wing is improved and throughly tested. You have read the news a year ago that after the accident of the JF17 the wing was "tested". In fact that was the strengthening so it can handle a lot more now. But more stores need more thrust so China did improve RD93 parts. The RD93/RD33 is a very forgiving, rugged and extremely fast reacting engine. Yet it is not sophisticated enough to move towards better thrust like PW220 we have. So China engineered parts to make it a lot better quality. It offered indeed Russia to do it together... You all know the articles.

So now you have better wing, better engine and India has no idea what to say.

btw. there are a lot more improvements inside and the block 3 is very very potent as far as I can judge. I think we can easily say that it is moving beyond the best we have now. Just wait three years and you will remind me what I said.


About a close article that USA is blocking the usage of our F16's. Not really. It fears that China gets its hands on it. That is fully understandable. But Indians are seeing a different reality. The fact is that both Pakistan and China are absorbing know how a lot better then Indians. While the Indians are busy with buying and failing LCA, IJT, prop trainer and many more projects the Chinese move towards stealth and beyond... Pakistan moved from J5, J6, J7 (60 era designs) towards block40-52 knowhow...

Let me put it simple. According Indians we could not get RD93... Klimov even offered rd93 MA... We could not get F16... No DRFM.. Well, we already have it plugged in. We have US pods with DRFM and even JF17 with DRFM.

While the Indians get wet seeing LCA doing night test flying we are a few decades ahead. Without western nations helping us. Without billions spending on bad projects. So, thank you.

 

[HRK]

PAF/PAC/China is not showing every improvement to everyone. But the latest article in Combat Aircraft shows what was known in the "insiders" group. The engine has been a big issue in the beginning but has been tackled very smartly. While the first few had the good old RD93 with direct relation to the infamous smokey RD33 (changed gearbox and more thrust) the production examples were already improved. I have shown you guys pipes coming out of the exhaust. This was one of the improvement to reduce smoke by bypassing the chambers and dump fuel. Similar as the AL31... The block 2 had the need for more stores to become near F16 block52 so the wing is improved and throughly tested. You have read the news a year ago that after the accident of the JF17 the wing was "tested". In fact that was the strengthening so it can handle a lot more now. But more stores need more thrust so China did improve RD93 parts. The RD93/RD33 is a very forgiving, rugged and extremely fast reacting engine. Yet it is not sophisticated enough to move towards better thrust like PW220 we have. So China engineered parts to make it a lot better quality. It offered indeed Russia to do it together... You all know the articles.

So now you have better wing, better engine and India has no idea what to say.

btw. there are a lot more improvements inside and the block 3 is very very potent as far as I can judge. I think we can easily say that it is moving beyond the best we have now. Just wait three years and you will remind me what I said.


About a close article that USA is blocking the usage of our F16's. Not really. It fears that China gets its hands on it. That is fully understandable. But Indians are seeing a different reality. The fact is that both Pakistan and China are absorbing know how a lot better then Indians. While the Indians are busy with buying and failing LCA, IJT, prop trainer and many more projects the Chinese move towards stealth and beyond... Pakistan moved from J5, J6, J7 (60 era designs) towards block40-52 knowhow...

Let me put it simple. According Indians we could not get RD93... Klimov even offered rd93 MA... We could not get F16... No DRFM.. Well, we already have it plugged in. We have US pods with DRFM and even JF17 with DRFM.

While the Indians get wet seeing LCA doing night test flying we are a few decades ahead. Without western nations helping us. Without billions spending on bad projects. So, thank you.

One thing I am unable to grasp, how on the earth China manage to increase the thrust of the engine without introducing any major modification, & 'if' it is done then what could be the effects of modification on the engine overall life and its serviceability.

 

[Lil Mathew]

pls dont worry on our behalf.....

He just expressed his opinion.. Almost all aircrafts are in clean configuration when doing aerobatics in air shows.. You can't accurately predict fighters performance just seeing those shows.. For example china aerobatic performance using J7 fighter and trainer kiran mk2 by IAF..

 

[Munir]

One thing I am unable to grasp, who on the earth China manage to increase the thrust of the engine without introducing any major modification, & 'if' it is done then what could be the effects of modification on the engine overall life and its serviceability.

If you can make components that can handle higher temperature, more stresses etc We have better technology, materials and computing power then say 20 years ago...

He just expressed his opinion.. Almost all aircrafts are in clean configuration when doing aerobatics in air shows.. You can't accurately predict fighters performance just seeing those shows.. For example china aerobatic performance using J7 fighter and trainer kiran mk2 by IAF..

During wartime they will not get close if possible. And even then one needs to remember that even f16 with wing fueltank can do only 6+ G. The Flanker might be fuel monster and never needing fueltanks but it is still heavy... Don't expect it to do very much with full load...

 

[HRK]

@WebMaster , @Horus , @Oscar , @Chak Bamu

plz check JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 6] | Page 27

 

[Tempest II]

One thing I am unable to grasp, how on the earth China manage to increase the thrust of the engine without introducing any major modification, & 'if' it is done then what could be the effects of modification on the engine overall life and its serviceability.

My thinking is that, like most engineering works, modifying an already built system has its drawbacks (cost, time and possibly some other aspects of performance). If possible, you want to build it right from the start. I believe this is why the Russians are on record saying a customer is asking for the improved RD-93MA. I am sure Klimov will sell the improved engine for a bit more but overall to Pakistan and the Chinese, it will still be cheaper and maybe better performing than the modification. Everybody wins.

 

[Munir]

My thinking is that, like most engineering works, modifying an already built system has its drawbacks (cost, time and possibly some other aspects of performance). If possible, you want to build it right from the start. I believe this is why the Russians are on record saying a customer is asking for the improved RD-93MA. I am sure Klimov will sell the improved engine for a bit more but overall to Pakistan and the Chinese, it will still be cheaper and maybe better performing than the modification. Everybody wins.

As an engineer I think I can change your mind. An engine is that complex that only a few nations re able to produce it. And those have used German designs from the beginning (so have decades of experience and tons of engineers). In a complex system you just start with parts to copy and maybe to improve. Gradually you move on. Just like one needs to produce a basic trainer (Mushaq), then advanced trainer (K8), then fighterjet (JF17) before entering stealth arena as a nation. Exactly that shows that a nation is clearly lying about its abilities... India wants to be partnering PAKFA or able to assemble Rafale... The reality is that it cannot start with the Mushaq level. I understand that many Indians like to think different cause they send a plug and play kit of less then 20 kg to Mars with all the help of USA, Europe, Indonesia, Malaysia (yep) and more but one needs to have to feet on the ground. Indians are no way near China... No way near Israel. No way near Europe, USA. Russia, South Africa, Brasil and indeed no way near Pakistani abilities in this sector.