JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 6]

[Bilal.]

View attachment 114051

I have seen this poster, it's from zhuhai airshow 2004 I believe but it most likely points to further development possibility. But as of now the improved RD-93ma is rated at 9300 kgf (roughly 91 KN) and RD-33MKM is rated at 9500 kgf.

Take-off Magazine : RD-33: output on the rise

 

[Tempest II]

While the journalist is trying to connect dots, what is your comment on the wing commander Ronald’s words (and in my case Sq Ldr Hussain as well) of 1:1.1?

 

[VCheng]

While the journalist is trying to connect dots, what is your comment on the wing commander Ronald’s words (and in my case Sq Ldr Hussain as well) of 1:1.1?

I will believe this claim as soon as there is a demonstration of that TWR in a flight display. A nice vertical climb as soon as gears are up would do nicely!

 

[Bilal.]

While the journalist is trying to connect dots, what is your comment on the wing commander Ronald’s words (and in my case Sq Ldr Hussain as well) of 1:1.1?

Hmmm... That is interesting indeed but makes no sense when even Klimov is claiming 9300 kgf for the latest RD-93ma which has not even been used in the JF-17 yet...

@Oscar @Windjammer how do we explain this twr 1.1 with the plain old RD-93???

 

[Lord Of Gondor]

how do we explain this twr 1.1 with the plain old RD-93???

This

 

[Bilal.]

This

Yes but it cannot or should not be quoted as normal spec of the aircraft... Plus can the RD-93 become 98kn even on emergency settings? Probably not. If I remember correctly it can gain 10% on WEP, I may be wrong though.

 

[Tempest II]

China said they are increasing the thrust of Russian engines and were “Inviting” the Russians to work with them in this respect. … … Now, here me speculating … … and I ask this as a question: “What are the chances that China/Pakistan are already making un-authorised (unofficial) modifications to the engines after they have been received …??? … I my view the two pilots are quoting the same figure and 4 years apart! Coincidence?

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July 26, 2010
China Pitches Engine Deal to Russia
By TOM KINGTON
FARNBOROUGH, England - Chinese aerospace officials have grown so confident of their manufacturing ability that they have offered to help Russia boost the power of its fighter jet engines to increase sales.
Discussing the Russian-built RD-93 engine at the Farnborough Air Show, Ma Zhiping, president of the China National Aero-Technology Import and Export Corp. (CATIC), said Chinese know-how could help add some needed thrust.
"I hope to get to 9,000 kilograms with our help," he said. "If we can do that, we will help sales." .... .... ....
Asked if he would seek Russian collaboration on the WS-13, Ma said, "we had discussions, but I prefer to work with them on the RD-93, taking on overhaul capabilities, and I hope to go to 9,000 kilograms with our help."

 

[Bilal.]

China said they are increasing the thrust of Russian engines and were “Inviting” the Russians to work with them in this respect. … … Now, here me speculating … … and I ask this as a question: “What are the chances that China/Pakistan are already making un-authorised (unofficial) modifications to the engines after they have been received …??? … I my view the two pilots are quoting the same figure and 4 years apart! Coincidence?

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That "can" also explain why PAF is not much interested in RD-93MA... But that is a BIIIIIG speculation on our part

But even the improvement Chinese were offering was up to 9000 kgf... Still wouldn't explain 1.1 twr...

 

[Lord Of Gondor]

Yes but it cannot or should not be quoted as normal spec of the aircraft... Plus can the RD-93 become 98kn even on emergency settings? Probably not. If I remember correctly it can gain 10% on WEP, I may be wrong though.

Well the only other explanation I can get is that made by Tempest.
The "Most Advanced" RD-33 series engine is the Sea Wasp developed in 2001.It has 7% higher thrust compared to the baseline RD-33.

 

[Kompromat]

TWR is not static but variable. JF-17 can even supercruise while descending from 35000ft in a clean wing spec. It ofcourse offers no operational benefits.

 

[Bilal.]

TWR is not static but variable. JF-17 can even supercruise while descending from 35000ft in a clean wing spec. It ofcourse offers no operational benefits.

If I am correct TWR is taken against normal takeoff weight (9500 kg for JFT)... So it's pretty much a fixed value as in specs. Obviously if carrying less stores the actually TWR would be more or less if full stores are being carried.

 

[Tempest II]

What about the 3,000 lb (1,360kg) of extra stores?

A few months ago we debated this with some people thinking the additional capacity reported on December and the stress testing results from last year had nothing to do with the plane INCREASED PAYLOAD TONNAGE.

 

[Tempest II]

Also we debated the implications of these 100, 150 and 200% load tests

枭龙机翼完成静力试验 200%载荷下结构仍然完好

This will put the plane at nearly 5 tonnes of payload from the original 3,600 kg

 

[Bratva]

What about the 3,000 lb (1,360kg) of extra stores?

If few months ago we debated this with some people thinking the additional capacity reported on December and the stress testing results from last year had nothing to do with the plane INCREASED PAYLOAD TONNAGE.

View attachment 114920

no.of hardpoints remain same but each point can bear more load attached with. Make sense when you are going to attach ALCM or stand-off missiles and bombs with it

 

[Donatello]

I will believe this claim as soon as there is a demonstration of that TWR in a flight display. A nice vertical climb as soon as gears are up would do nicely!

Did that at Dubai Air Show. After deploying speed brakes at the end of a maneuver, the plane goes near stall speed and from there full thrust to go ballistic, with onlookers scanning for the sky.

no.of hardpoints remain same but each point can bear more load attached with. Make sense when you are going to attach ALCM or stand-off missiles and bombs with it

For standard CAP JF-17s should have provisions for 4 BVRs and 2 WVRs, plus at least one fuel tank and a hardpoint for EW pod.