JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 6]

[Sulman Badshah]

400 ALR is RWR not an EWSC

means now there is full ew system...replacing other chinese things

 

[Windjammer]

Any idea what the milestone is?

Most likely JF-17 strength reached up to 70 ?

The ACM disclosed this while talking to media in Jordan....i doubt he would have been discussing numbers there.

 

[Beast]

AESA is facing cooling Problems,while HMDS will may be south African they are producing quality one,that will be ok,we haven't got IFR because as i know it was simply rejected by pilots.They may opt for another design of IFR or simply push that down there throats.
Air frame has been strengthened,may be more use of composites,may grant an extra payload of 600kg.9 hard points expected.
Lot of peoples asked to get rid of compulsory fuel tanks and go for dorsel spine,which will have no drag at all as compared to FT.
But at the end of days,it all depends upon MOD ,which has word defense as least priority these days.

You can drop the drop tank if neccessary to enter dogfight and you can be as agile as ever. With Dorsel spine, you cant drop it and stick with a drag airframe for dogfight.

 

[Sine Nomine]

You can drop the drop tank if neccessary to enter dogfight and you can be as agile as ever. With Dorsel spine, you cant drop it and stick with a drag airframe for dogfight.

Dorsal spine is part of body,drag produced by it is very less or negligible but according to Wiki.
"The primary disadvantage with drop tanks is that they impose a drag penalty on the aircraft carrying them. External fuel tanks will also increase the moment of inertia, thereby reducing roll rates for air maneuvers. Some of the drop tank's fuel is used to overcome the added drag and weight of the tank itself. Drag in this sense varies with the square of the aircraft's speed. The use of drop tanks also reduces the number of external hardpoints available for weapons, reduces the weapon-carrying capacity, and increases the aircraft's radar signature."
Dorsal
spine is used on board F-16D & mig-21 bison with success.

 

[ConcealCarry]

probably test firing of C802 and/or CM400 in sea spark

Any idea what the milestone is?

 

[Beast]

Dorsal spine is part of body,drag produced by it is very less or negligible but according to Wiki.
"The primary disadvantage with drop tanks is that they impose a drag penalty on the aircraft carrying them. External fuel tanks will also increase the moment of inertia, thereby reducing roll rates for air maneuvers. Some of the drop tank's fuel is used to overcome the added drag and weight of the tank itself. Drag in this sense varies with the square of the aircraft's speed. The use of drop tanks also reduces the number of external hardpoints available for weapons, reduces the weapon-carrying capacity, and increases the aircraft's radar signature."
Dorsal
spine is used on board F-16D & mig-21 bison with success.

You cant straight away reduce the weight. If you need to enter a dogfight immediately to engage enemy. Drop tank just drop and you reduce weight and make go into close combat.

Can you explained how do a dorsal spine F-16 or Bison immediately reduced weight to enter close aerial combat if needed? Or you want to say the increase fuel weight will not affect dogfight capabilities?

 

[Sine Nomine]

You cant straight away reduce the weight. If you need to enter a dogfight immediately to engage enemy. Drop tank just drop and you reduce weight and make go into close combat.

Can you explained how do a dorsal spine F-16 or Bison immediately reduced weight to enter close aerial combat if needed? Or you want to say the increase fuel weight will not affect dogfight capabilities?

Dear Drop tanks have more drag as compared to dorsal spine regarding weight,it reduces payload.In dog fight after dropping DP's you have no option after dogfight is over other then R2B.In case of Dorsal spine it's performance was very well in case of 16& Bison.

 

[Tempest II]

The AVIC website has been updated. The export J-10, yes, FC-20.

They have started talking about the 2-seater FC-1

Fighters

 

[Beast]

Dear Drop tanks have more drag as compared to dorsal spine regarding weight,it reduces payload.In dog fight after dropping DP's you have no option after dogfight is over other then R2B.In case of Dorsal spine it's performance was very well in case of 16& Bison.

Mission abort for dumping Drop tank is better than KIA due to overweight and lack of agilities.

 

[Sine Nomine]

Mission abort for dumping Drop tank is better than KIA due to overweight and lack of agilities.

There is no over weight in case of 16 and bison,weight Air frame is reduced to such an extent that dorsal spine is completely acceptable,Pakistan has older F-16 models without spine and newer models with spine,there agility is same.
@Windjammer hey man,please can you tell Mr Beast,that F-16 with or without Dorsel Spine have same performance.

 

[Windjammer]

There is no over weight in case of 16 and bison,weight Air frame is reduced to such an extent that dorsal spine is completely acceptable,Pakistan has older F-16 models without spine and newer models with spine,there agility is same.
@Windjammer hey man,please can you tell Mr Beast,that F-16 with or without Dorsel Spine have same performance.

First phase of flight testing of the F-16 conformal fuel tanks completed

"The flying qualities of the F-16 with CFTs are essentially unchanged when compared to a non-CFT equipped airplane," said Stephen W. Barter, chief F-16 test pilot and company CFT project pilot. "For most combat flight conditions, it's as if the CFTs are not even there. The surest way for me to tell if CFTs are installed is to look over my shoulder."

"The CFTs have very little adverse affect on the F-16's renowned performance," said Maj. Timothy S. McDonald, U.S. Air Force project pilot for CFT testing at Eglin. "The aircraft retains its full 9-g capability and flight envelope with the CFTs installed. The drag impact is very small - less than one percent in combat configuration at cruise conditions."

 

[Sine Nomine]

First phase of flight testing of the F-16 conformal fuel tanks completed

"The flying qualities of the F-16 with CFTs are essentially unchanged when compared to a non-CFT equipped airplane," said Stephen W. Barter, chief F-16 test pilot and company CFT project pilot. "For most combat flight conditions, it's as if the CFTs are not even there. The surest way for me to tell if CFTs are installed is to look over my shoulder."

"The CFTs have very little adverse affect on the F-16's renowned performance," said Maj. Timothy S. McDonald, U.S. Air Force project pilot for CFT testing at Eglin. "The aircraft retains its full 9-g capability and flight envelope with the CFTs installed. The drag impact is very small - less than one percent in combat configuration at cruise conditions."

Thanks mate , if was asking you to clear us on effect of dorsal spine on fighter,it can be used extra electronics and fuel,what impact it has on fighter.
Beast was arguing, a dorsal spine in not suitable as compared to DT's.
Is that Dorsal Spine kinda above mounted CFT?

 

[Windjammer]

Thanks mate , if was asking you to clear us on effect of dorsal spine on fighter,it can be used extra electronics and fuel,what impact it has on fighter.
Beast was arguing, a dorsal spine in not suitable as compared to DT's.
Is that Dorsal Spine kinda above mounted CFT?

The Dorsal spine on F-16 ''D'' models used to house some hi tech gadgets which are customer specific, it has little or no effect on the performance of the aircraft....ironically F-16s in USAF service neither have a dorsal spine or CFTs.

 

[Sine Nomine]

ironically F-16s in USAF service neither have a dorsal spine or CFTs.

They have f-18 growler,F-15 strike eagle for jobs for which we require and obtained F-16 with spine and CFT's.
Thanks mate.

 

[araz]

In a joint exercise the JF-17 was involved in ''shoot'n scoot'' tactics, it would see the bigger RCS adversary first, launch it weapon and break off before the other aircraft could acquire the smaller JF-17.....so it may be not intended to loiter around for longer periods.

In order to assure a kill at BVR range you would need to launch 2 BVRs a short time apart. Now there is no reason to have a capability to engage 2 while following 4 if you can only fire 2 BVRs, Therefore the need for 4 BVRs.
Oscar posted that the clearance of the wings needs to be addressed prior to inducting DERs. Considering that the two missiles would be placed side by side would that be a problem?
A

"How do you know if Block III AESA is inferior to J-10B if it will be the same. Block III will get a new nose job to get AESA.
During Paris 2015 the rate of climb of JF-17 from 150 m to 1,300 m was so impressive that the pilots of USAF F-15 were stunned.
How do you know that Block II & III will not get IRST and HMD?
One of the upgrade plan is to have PESA along with IRST on board adding four more external pylons and having multiple racks on the existing pylons.
PAF admits that they believe that the payload of JF-17 is little on the lighter side. But they intend to increase while reducing the original weight of the aircraft using composite material and adding more multi mission weapons. The plan is to have CAP mission of JF-17 with 6AAMs
AVIC said that they have developed a more powerful R-93 engine for twin-seater FC-1/JF-17 with A/B trust increased to 8,600kg. This engine will be available for JF-17 Block III."
The third squadron stood up at PAF AB Masroor and it is dedicated for maritime missions. It is equipped with C-802AK, SD-10, and PL-5 E2. All of the weapons have been tested on JF-17 in China this includes, CM-400, CM-101, MAR-1, H-4 and Ra'ad (Haft VIII) ALCM
PLAAF still not decided if they require FC-1 or not?"
POSTED by Hkhan of pakdef.info .posted here to give people an idea of what is being planned for JFT.
A