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JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 6]

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the video is about the air force and jf 17 is also related to air force so you think more and you will get it and by the way in this thread you will find many posts which is not related to jf-17 by any mean but they are here bcz there is no specific rules here about it.

Wah your logic just gave me heart attack in kidneys

If you want to post the video of Air force The there is Multimedia section
if someone has posted off topic doesn't mean everyone should start following it
 
Wah your logic just gave me heart attack in kidneys

If you want to post the video of Air force The there is Multimedia section
if someone has posted off topic doesn't mean everyone should start following it
if u don't want to understand that why i posted the clip then i can't make u.see it again and again and think what is the meaning of posting this clip here.:police:
 
yes of course
paf was considering it but said it was underpowered
if jh7b comes in 2016 than there is a high possibility that paf might buy it

PAF should not even be considering this fighter bomber.

We need multi-role fighters or air superiority fighters
 
PAF should not even be considering this fighter bomber.

We need multi-role fighters or air superiority fighters

Hi,

Why not---India is facing a smaller enemy---yet it has bomber----the U S has many bombers----Pakistan air force had bombers---why not pakistan----.
 
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Hi,

Why not---India is facing a smaller enemy---yet it has bomber----the U S has many bombers----Pakistan air forcehad bomber---why not pakistan----.
If a jet is armed with bvr and wvr missles, doesnt it make a good air superiority fighter ??? Knowing that in this era the dog fights r probably gone
 
Hi,

Why not---India is facing a smaller enemy---yet it has bomber----the U S has many bombers----Pakistan air force had bombers---why not pakistan----.

Every country inducts weapons based on their envisaged usage.

In the present cold start scenario PAFs main role would be to deny enemy local air superiority and give Pak Army a level playing field.

For maintaining a favorable air situation we need air superiority / multirole fighters.

Fighters can be used as bombers but bombers cannot be used as fighters so PAF should go for fighters.

If a jet is armed with bvr and wvr missles, doesnt it make a good air superiority fighter ??? Knowing that in this era the dog fights r probably gone

Tactics can always be evolved so that fighters can sneak in. At close range maneuverability and energy are paramount. Russians did not integrate a gun with the Mig -25 because they thought missiles would suffice - They were wrong. US suffered losses in Vietnam because they started relying on missiles - They introduced Dog Fights in TOP GUN. All modern fighters now have guns integrated for the dog fight scenario.
 
Every country inducts weapons based on their envisaged usage.

In the present cold start scenario PAFs main role would be to deny enemy local air superiority and give Pak Army a level playing field.

For maintaining a favorable air situation we need air superiority / multirole fighters.

Fighters can be used as bombers but bombers cannot be used as fighters so PAF should go for fighters.


Hi,

It is not as simple as that---and not as simple as paf is making the Pakistanis believe in----. You have to learn a little bit more and understand better the intricacies of combat----..

Pak army is not going to get a leveled playing field unless the air force does not have bombers-----. As much as you want to have local air superiority---so much so you want to reach out and touch the enemy in the deep. You need to learn to understand and grasp that concept----.

Because if you cannot reach deep into the enemy----you cannot divert its air resources----if its air resources cannot be diverted---then they will have only one and only one focus---to do air combat over Pakistani skies---and that is not a winning game plan.

JH7B is a multirole aircraft----it can carry as many BVR's as any other twin tail chinese fighter can----it can carry massive jammers---and play the role of a growler type aircraft----you need to read my post on the JH7B as a learning tool and not as " I already made up my mind kind of scenario ".

Just ook at the role of the B1 bomber in the video that Aamer Hussein posted----. If the U S can do that---then why cannot Pakistan-----. God hase given brains to be used----and not to believe in whatever the PAF's hierarchy says---.
 
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Every country inducts weapons based on their envisaged usage.

Tactics can always be evolved so that fighters can sneak in. At close range maneuverability and energy are paramount. Russians did not integrate a gun with the Mig -25 because they thought missiles would suffice - They were wrong. US suffered losses in Vietnam because they started relying on missiles - They introduced Dog Fights in TOP GUN. All modern fighters now have guns integrated for the dog fight scenario.

ok thats cool but then F-35 is not a dog fighter. is it ?
 
Russians did not integrate a gun with the Mig -25 because they thought missiles would suffice - They were wrong.

I fully agree with your post and just wanted to further highlight the MiG-25 part.

The MiG-25 was developed with the mindset as a high speed long range high altitude stand-off interceptor that would engage west's strategic bomber force (especially to counter the B-70 Valkyrie ... that was later scrapped) threat. It was envisaged as the first line of defence against any western aerial aggression and was to be complimented by swarms of MiG-21s and MiG-23s.

It was designed and developed for the role of a dedicated archer and not a swordsman.

The Soviets had lots of resources and a huge air force back then and could afford specialized fighters.

ok thats cool but then F-35 is not a dog fighter. is it ?

It was supposed to be. But it had to be too many things to too many people. The actual field performance suffered due to that.

But make no mistake. In the Look First Shoot First arena, it is only surpassed in some aspects by the F-22.
 
AoA

Love the way MastanKhan always starts his post with a salutation. Would do so in future.


Hi,

It is not as simple as that---and not as simple as paf is making the Pakistanis believe in----. You have to learn a little bit more and understand better the intricacies of combat----..

God hase given brains to be used----and not to believe in whatever the PAF's hierarchy says---.

I assure you that after going through operational duties, staff course, war course NDU etc. the PAF hierarchy is well versed in the intricacies of combat. You may choose not to believe them but you should never ignore them.


Pak army is not going to get a leveled playing field unless the air force does not have bombers-----. As much as you want to have local air superiority---so much so you want to reach out and touch the enemy in the deep. You need to learn to understand and grasp that concept----.

Because if you cannot reach deep into the enemy----you cannot divert its air resources----if its air resources cannot be diverted---then they will have only one and only one focus---to do air combat over Pakistani skies---and that is not a winning game plan.

He who stays in the trenches will loose. Good offence is the best defence. The importance of reach is well known to all soldiers especially air warriors as reach is a characteristic of air power.

We have the capability of reach through cruise missile and stand off weapons. If required deep strikes can also be carried out but would be high attrition missions. JH7B costs a lot and does not enhance capability significantly


JH7B is a multirole aircraft----it can carry as many BVR's as any other twin tail chinese fighter can----it can carry massive jammers---and play the role of a growler type aircraft----you need to read my post on the JH7B as a learning tool and not as " I already made up my mind kind of scenario ".

I have read your posts, all 13 of them (hence the delay) I have also seen and been briefed about this aircraft at Xi'an Aircraft Industrial Corporation. Would maintain that it is a luxury that PAF cannot afford at present.
 
I have also seen and been briefed about this aircraft at Xi'an Aircraft Industrial Corporation. Would maintain that it is a luxury that PAF cannot afford at present.

Sir, nice post.
Can you share what you learnt about the specs and cost of the air craft at the Xi'an Aircraft Industrial Corporation?

So that we can better understand your point of view in the light of what you have learnt over there.
 
AoA

Love the way MastanKhan always starts his post with a salutation. Would do so in future.




I assure you that after going through operational duties, staff course, war course NDU etc. the PAF hierarchy is well versed in the intricacies of combat. You may choose not to believe them but you should never ignore them.




He who stays in the trenches will loose. Good offence is the best defence. The importance of reach is well known to all soldiers especially air warriors as reach is a characteristic of air power.

We have the capability of reach through cruise missile and stand off weapons. If required deep strikes can also be carried out but would be high attrition missions. JH7B costs a lot and does not enhance capability significantly




I have read your posts, all 13 of them (hence the delay) I have also seen and been briefed about this aircraft at Xi'an Aircraft Industrial Corporation. Would maintain that it is a luxury that PAF cannot afford at present.


Hi,

The cruise missiles and surface to surface missiles will not do the job. And I appreciate you reading up on the threads.

It is all about having strike capability at the enemy's weakest position----at enemy's flank---at a place where it hurts the most.

As I stated earlier----provinces of eastern Punjab will be sacrificed---india cares less abut them. It is all about Maharashtra and down below---that is the soft flank and gut of india---for that you need heavies with deep strike capabilities.

It was only Mohammad Ali who mastered the technique of Rope a Dope-----and none could do it again for the last 40 years or so.

The cost of the JH7B s no different than the cost of the Blk2-3 JF17----but it gives a massive punch for the dollar that is paid----.

As for the Paf---it has been hijacked by fighter mafia----so when they see a heavy bomber / fighter---they just go numb and look the different way.

See---this problem is in the U S also---when a navy guy gets on top---he only wants to build air craft carriers---when an air force fighter jock gets on the top---he wants to have more fighter and hates the bombers----Sir---this DISEASE is nothing new----all the armed forced of the world suffer from this delusion----the issue here is not to be taken by those who claim that their chicken hawk would take down the enemy's mighty eagle.

A surgeon only thinks that a removal of the body part is the answer----and an ironsmith thinks that the hammer is the only tool needed.

As I have stated often----to whatever it may count to---JF17 is the best bang for the buck but it is the bang at the lowest tiers of strength----. When the enemy is 3 times the size---you also need sledge hammers to clear the way thru----.

We need a pneumatic hammer to do the job---the JF17 is a hand held chisel and hammer.

As Clauswitz stated that wars must have political solutions----similarly---your weapons systems must have the enemy seriously concerned about the damage they can do for it to make threats.

Our political scenario would have been totally different if we had ordered 3 sqdrn's of Rafales in 2003. It was after 2005 and the cancellation of the 72 f16's that india changed its stance.

The bottom line is---that the mindset of defending Pakistani air space is that of a failed strategy---because the air force is clueless to what to do----it is fighting from a position of weakness from the start.

In the 80's---the Mirage F1 would have done the same job as the F16 was doing----. The air force screwed up by buying the F16---because it left its flank open----it allowed the Indians to buy the Mirage 2K----. If Pakistan would have gone for the mirage 2kinstead of the f16----it would have been a different game.

Sir---sometimes it is not necessary to buy the number one---sometimes the number two is as deadly and strategically more important.

So---please don't tell me about the strategy and the intellect of the PAF. This organization has failed to do its duty----. 14 years it has been---its job was to find the air superiority aircraft needed to take charge of the air space.

They cry about the sanctions----they could have gone out and procured the used Mirage F1's in the 90's---if cost was a problem---. Then used M2k's were available.

Surface to surface missiles and cruise missiles do not give the strength and the punch needed to stop and enemy at the borders----.

It s the same delusion that the army generals had at Kargil that shoulder launched sam's will win the air war for them----.

JF17 is not going to make much of a difference unless complimented with a heavy----. Like the F16's with the F15's.
 
As far as the heavies are concerned, JH-7B is not the only option available.

A scale model if a modified J-31 was displayed at Zhuhai Air Show 2014. This model showed modified wings, vertical and horizontal stabilizers and engine nozzles. 2 x 100kN WS-13 are planned for future.

IMG_7168-j31.jpg


ACM Sohail Aman has confirmed that the PAF is looking for a next generation fighter. J-31 can be used as a stop-gap until the F-16 fleet gets replaced by more advanced fighters than the J-31. Turkey has already invited us to join the TFX program and we have a decade to develop it before the F-16 airframe exhaust their airframe hours. Of course it all depends on our economic progress but i am optimistic.

A few CGIs showing the planned improvements.

2lmnx2w.jpg


2qjk28m.jpg


ac4k89.jpg


As far as the heavies are concerned, JH-7B is not the only option available.

A scale model of a modified J-31 was displayed at Zhuhai Air Show 2014. This model showed modified wings, vertical and horizontal stabilizers and engine nozzles. 2 x 100kN WS-13 powerplants are planned for future.

IMG_7168-j31.jpg


ACM Sohail Aman has confirmed that the PAF is looking for a next generation fighter. J-31 can be used as a stop-gap until the F-16 fleet gets replaced by more advanced fighters than the J-31. Turkey has already invited us to join the TFX program and we have a decade to develop it before the F-16 airframes exhaust their airframe hours. Of course it all depends on our economic progress but i am optimistic.

A few CGIs showing the planned improvements.

2lmnx2w.jpg


2qjk28m.jpg


ac4k89.jpg
 
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