JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 6]

[Windjammer]

 

[Quwa]

Dear Sir,
Pak can't fully rely on it's missile arsenal to attack enemy targets , the Paf shall be compelled to have at least one semi stealth long range fighter bomber from Su family (more chance of Chinese platform). Further if Pak gets J31 same requirement shall be fulfilled. Pak already relying on Mirage IIIs and Vs having short lifespan. As per wiki combat range of J31 is 1,250KM which I believ shall be more than 2000KM once this bird is ready.

Please do consider Indian efforts of getting capable air defense, as it already has S300 SAMs in it's arsenal along with other systems.

The air defence challenges would be the same for a heavier fighter. The best way of not dealing with IAF SAMs is to attack targets from as far away as possible, I.E. stand-off range, and in excess of 300km. Ultimately the PAF would probably invest in further developing Ra'ad as well as acquiring a JSOW like system, in addition to stockpiling on AShM, ARM, etc.

 

[CHI RULES]

The air defence challenges would be the same for a heavier fighter. The best way of not dealing with IAF SAMs is to attack targets from as far away as possible, I.E. stand-off range, and in excess of 300km. Ultimately the PAF would probably invest in further developing Ra'ad as well as acquiring a JSOW like system, in addition to stockpiling on AShM, ARM, etc.

U still can't deny effectiveness of stealthy heavy platforms. If ur logic is true why America is using Air force around the world despite having long range missiles. We have seen that such missiles are not so reliable like American Tomhawks fell in Blouchistan/Iran instead of Afgh.

 

[DrWatson775]

U still can't deny effectiveness of stealthy heavy platforms. If ur logic is true why America is using Air force around the world despite having long range missiles. We have seen that such missiles are not so reliable like American Tomhawks fell in Blouchistan/Iran instead of Afgh.

CCIP mode is the best........

 

[MastanKhan]

U still can't deny effectiveness of stealthy heavy platforms. If ur logic is true why America is using Air force around the world despite having long range missiles. We have seen that such missiles are not so reliable like American Tomhawks fell in Blouchistan/Iran instead of Afgh.

Hi,

Well---that was God's gift to Pakistan---. So one should not object to the doings of the Lord. 4 missiles out of a 100 plus missing their target and doing a soft landing is a miracle.

Technology has had an incremental change in the last 15 years---.

But off course----you still need the heavies---.

 

[fatman17]

JFT 13 - 146

 

[fatman17]

Meray piyara bhai yon yay Jay ef tee thread hai

 

[fatman17]

JFT strike package

 

[Zarvan]

Why people are not posting more pictures of BLOCK II ?

 

[fatman17]

Not available so far

 

[Paksanity]

Not available so far

Correct me if I'm wrong, PAF seems to accord greater priority to Air Defence and Maritime attack capabilities of JF-17. This is evident from integration. Efforts to integrate of air to air missiles and anti-ship missiles are indicators to that. This strategy is correct in Pakistan's own environment because this where PAF needs to push its capabilities. However if we are look to look at export market, potential buyers may be more interested in its capability to engage ground targets with precision. In today's world, terrorism and insurgencies are biggest threat to nation states and air to air fights have gone on low priority. If countries like Iraq, Myanmar, Sri Lanka, Nigeria, Egypt, Yemen etc are to buy this aircraft, they will keenly evaluate JFT's ability to strike terrorist's targets with guided weapons in any weather, day and night. My question is why we are not seeing JFT pics with LGBs, Air to surface missiles and targeting and recce pods? Shouldn't it make more sense for export customers?

 

[Quwa]

U still can't deny effectiveness of stealthy heavy platforms. If ur logic is true why America is using Air force around the world despite having long range missiles. We have seen that such missiles are not so reliable like American Tomhawks fell in Blouchistan/Iran instead of Afgh.

They fell off target in the 1990s, I don't think the margin of failure would be as bad today (given their heavy use in Iraq in 2003). As for the U.S, when was the last time it conducted aerial operations over a truly threatening air defence environment? Last I checked the Taliban weren't sporting MKIs and long-range SAMs. Moreover, the U.S has an abundance of heavy fighters, Pakistan would field like 40, so the impact of loss would be much bigger on Pakistan than U.S.

 

[CHI RULES]

They fell off target in the 1990s, I don't think the margin of failure would be as bad today (given their heavy use in Iraq in 2003). As for the U.S, when was the last time it conducted aerial operations over a truly threatening air defence environment? Last I checked the Taliban weren't sporting MKIs and long-range SAMs. Moreover, the U.S has an abundance of heavy fighters, Pakistan would field like 40, so the impact of loss would be much bigger on Pakistan than U.S.

Even Ballistic missiles can be intercepted by SAMS quite effectively, so if PAF not require heavy bombers then same is case with JSOW and Missiles, with exception of cruise Missile which are still challenging to be intercepted. Even Pak can;t afford to use them in volleys in the war.

 

[fatman17]

Correct me if I'm wrong, PAF seems to accord greater priority to Air Defence and Maritime attack capabilities of JF-17. This is evident from integration. Efforts to integrate of air to air missiles and anti-ship missiles are indicators to that. This strategy is correct in Pakistan's own environment because this where PAF needs to push its capabilities. However if we are look to look at export market, potential buyers may be more interested in its capability to engage ground targets with precision. In today's world, terrorism and insurgencies are biggest threat to nation states and air to air fights have gone on low priority. If countries like Iraq, Myanmar, Sri Lanka, Nigeria, Egypt, Yemen etc are to buy this aircraft, they will keenly evaluate JFT's ability to strike terrorist's targets with guided weapons in any weather, day and night. My question is why we are not seeing JFT pics with LGBs, Air to surface missiles and targeting and recce pods? Shouldn't it make more sense for export customers?

JF17 is only for PAF so Pakistan has its priorities when replacing the legacy fighters. However you are right and there should be a couple of demonstration aircraft which can showcase the requirements of a possible customer. That aircraft would be the FC1 and l think China has one such aircraft.

 

[MastanKhan]

Correct me if I'm wrong, PAF seems to accord greater priority to Air Defence and Maritime attack capabilities of JF-17. This is evident from integration. Efforts to integrate of air to air missiles and anti-ship missiles are indicators to that. This strategy is correct in Pakistan's own environment because this where PAF needs to push its capabilities. However if we are look to look at export market, potential buyers may be more interested in its capability to engage ground targets with precision. In today's world, terrorism and insurgencies are biggest threat to nation states and air to air fights have gone on low priority. If countries like Iraq, Myanmar, Sri Lanka, Nigeria, Egypt, Yemen etc are to buy this aircraft, they will keenly evaluate JFT's ability to strike terrorist's targets with guided weapons in any weather, day and night. My question is why we are not seeing JFT pics with LGBs, Air to surface missiles and targeting and recce pods? Shouldn't it make more sense for export customers?

Hi,

You have brought out some very important points----.

The biggest flaw in the presentation of JF 17 to the world was as if the PAF wanted to present this aircraft to PAF and what PAF needed and what it desired.

Paf lacked understanding what the needs and desires of perspective buying nations would be----would the plane be purchased for what a nation's air force needs or a pane would be purchased to show off the strength of the nation---. Was the nation looking to strut around in their new procurement----or were they satisfied with the ' STILETTO " like approach of the aircraft rather than a smasher thumper type image.

In product sales 101-----you find their needs and desires first----you just don't shove your product in front of them just like that---here it is----. So---as you find their needs and desires---so then you plan you display---you strengthen up the likeable and compliment it with all the other extras that are available.

basically---you need to find the HOT BUTTON of the customer---what turns him on----what is he going to do with the aircraft---and then you show him exactly what your aircraft will do for him as he wants it done-----.

And after you have hit on the hot points---you can then share other items of power projection that are a standard part of the package.

The thing is that there is a very fine line between a sale and a no sale----sometimes you oversell your product so much---that the customer gets confused and sometimes you undersell it so much that the customer is left wanting----.

So---it is better to have people whose job is to sell than to have those whose job is to fight----. Warriors are terrible sales people.