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JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 6]

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Are not most of PAF squadrons specializes in specific missions?
So these 3 different blocks with different specifications meet different mission specializations of PAF squadrons?

All the discussions with fuel and this and that is baseless. Fighter performs duties on mission to mission basis. The planners decide to which configuration the plane should be readied. What mix of planes will go for what mission? all this is done while considering all the factors and mission objective.

It is not like that the plane is fully loaded with fuel, external fuel tanks and all the armaments at the same time.
For CAP the fuel and weapon configuration will be different and so on..
 
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Dielectric composites will reflect lesser electronic magnetic energy and thus will be less visible to radars compared to metal frame. Think of it is a plane made of Steel compared to one made of plastic, which one will reflect more electromagnetic waves (radio waves)?
Also the use of composites helps on two fronts, it will help reduce radar reflections and will also reduce the weight of the plane resulting is better range, more fuel, better payload etc as per mission requirement.


Hi,

The metal concept is somewhat deceptive---. The cops when they light a speeding car from the front are looking at the chrome grill of the vehicle----or the chrome monogram---why---so to get the reflection back---.

Now if there is an all out blacked out front---the cops have a very hard time getting a lock on the speed of that vehicle----even though there sits an iron block in the engine compartment---the car is built of metal etc etc etc----.

Are not most of PAF squadrons specializes in specific missions?
So these 3 different blocks with different specifications meet different mission specializations of PAF squadrons?

All the discussions with fuel and this and that is baseless. Fighter performs duties on mission to mission basis. The planners decide to which configuration the plane should be readied. What mix of planes will go for what mission? all this is done while considering all the factors and mission objective.

It is not like that the plane is fully loaded with fuel, external fuel tanks and all the armaments at the same time.
For CAP the fuel and weapon configuration will be different and so on..


Hi,

Indeed---you are correct----. 99 % of the time I or majority of the americans ride alone in their cars. If you see the rush hour traffic on the freeways---you see all the lanes backed up---but the diamond lane ( 2 plus people in a car ) is almost empty---.

But my car is not designed for my daily drive of 24 days of the month---but it is designed for what if I am going to do if I have a family ( which some never will ) for 5 or 6 time a month.

And that puts it at 25---30 % of the time it will be used to carry people other than the driver.
 
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May be this is the replacement for FC-1 in China
no mates its not jf 17 replacement they are making world largest uav .its primary purpose is to detect stealth aircraft it have six aesa radar in it and this pic is showing its size in comparison of jf 17
 
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no mates its not jf 17 replacement they are making world largest uav .its primary purpose is to detect stealth aircraft it have six aesa radar in it and this pic is showing its size in comparison of jf 17
It can be armed as well so it can detect and then kill those intruders. So it can be a replacement for Fc-1's. Its saves them the pilot training and other losses and could be used in much more heavily guarded places.
 
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It can be armed as well so it can detect and then kill those intruders. So it can be a replacement for Fc-1's. Its saves them the pilot training and other losses and could be used in much more heavily guarded places.
it not meant to do that look at its size and shape it look like high endurance uav which can fly at extreme altitude it has six aesa it will be over kill to use this monster it is not as agile and fast as jet fighter would be. you can use awacs as bvr launch platform but do you no because they are extremely expensive high value targets so even replacing jf 17 with j20 is comparatively feasible option then this
 
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it not meant to do that look at its size and shape it look like high endurance uav which can fly at extreme altitude it has six aesa it will be over kill to use this monster it is not as agile and fast as jet fighter would be. you can use awacs as bvr launch platform but do you no because they are extremely expensive high value targets so even replacing jf 17 with j20 is comparatively feasible option then this
This is the latest what USA is planing.

The U.S. Air Force on Monday said it aims to meet electronic warfare needs using next-generation aircraft such as Lockheed Martin Corp's F-35 fighter and a new long-range bomber, rather than older planes like Boeing Co's EA-18G Growler. By Reuters | 1 Jun, 2015, 11.02PM IST
US Air Force eyes next-generation electronic warfare, not Boeing jets - The Economic Times

Still if one considers to use awacs and fighter aircraft with pilots it is their choice.
 
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It's for size judgement.



China does not operate FC-1s.
i know that i was just assuming that to explain the point that even if china use fc 1 it is still more feasible to replace it with j20 then this beast

This is the latest what USA is planing.

The U.S. Air Force on Monday said it aims to meet electronic warfare needs using next-generation aircraft such as Lockheed Martin Corp's F-35 fighter and a new long-range bomber, rather than older planes like Boeing Co's EA-18G Growler. By Reuters | 1 Jun, 2015, 11.02PM IST
US Air Force eyes next-generation electronic warfare, not Boeing jets - The Economic Times

Still if one considers to use awacs and fighter aircraft with pilots it is their choice.
i am not saying that you cant replace fighter jet with ucav i was saying that this particular uav is not replacement for fc 1
 
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What I am thinking is this:

Consider there's a conventional wing with spars and ribs and skin all made of metal. Now reflections occur at the metal skin as it is opaque to radar. If now we replace the SKIN ONLY with composite (for example) what the radar now sees is the internal structure of the wing (the spars, ribs, stringers) and they will form many many corner reflectors and I'm reasonably sure the return will be much higher (or am I mistaken?).

So won't a partial composite buildup cause more damage to the rcs than reduction if the internal structure is left unchanged? I can think of one solution right away, using lightweight directed reflectors (foils) internal to the composite skin to the 'hide' the internal metal structure. Is that what they do?
You are mistaken.

You are assuming that composites are inherently 'pass through' and that is not true. A radome is a pass through device by design, meaning its components are deliberately chosen because of molecular make-ups and how they are array together to allow pass through. By the same token, you can chose components by different molecular make-ups and array them differently to completely trap some -- not all -- quantity of any impinging EM signal.

Composites that are specifically designed for low radar observability DO NOT have that pass through characteristic, but they do have higher 'permeability' and 'permittivity'.

Materials Research - Complex permeability and permittivity variation of radar absorbing materials based on MnZn ferrite in microwave frequencies
The complex dielectric permittivity (ε) and magnetic permeability (µ) of Radar Absorbing Materials (RAM) based on magnetic particles (MnZn ferrite particles) embedded in a dielectric matrix (silicon rubber) have been studied in the frequency range of 2 to 18 GHz. The relative permeability and permittivity of MnZn ferrite-silicon composites for various mass fractions are measured by the transmission/reflection method using a vector network analyzer. The concentration dependence of permittivity and permeability on the evaluated frequency range is analyzed. In a general way, the results show ε' parameter presenting more significant variation among the evaluated parameters (ε", µ", µ'). The comparison of dielectric and magnetic loss tangents (ε"/ε' and µ"/µ', respectively) shows more clearly the variation of both parameters (ε and µ) according to the frequency. It is also observed that higher MnZn ferrite content fractions favor both dielectric and magnetic loss tangents.
What it means is that the composite material will allow penetration of its surface, but not pass through the entire thickness layer, thereby in a manner of speech, the composite material essentially 'traps' the impinging radar signals.

So keep in mind...

Penetration =/= Pass through.

No composites is ever perfect. The composite material will always reflect some measure and permit penetration some measure. So because of this imperfection, radome design and construction is critical to reduce what is called 'radome aberration' where the radome can and will produce false targets.

But there is an interesting twist...Just because you intend your composite material to allow penetration but not pass through, that does NOT mean the design is any easier than the formula that was designed for pass through. The formula for high penetration but not pass through is just as difficult to create and manufacture as the formula for complete pass through (radome).

The reason came from the radome itself, as in a bad formula and poor quality control manufactured radome composite material that produces false targets.

If a flawed radome composite material can produces false targets at one or more specific sweep angles, a composite material that was intended for high penetration but no pass through can be so badly formulated and manufactured that this formula can produces high reflectivity at certain surface locations but not other, thereby defeating the purpose of 'stealth' in the first place.
 
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