graphican
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JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 5]
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Nishan_101
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I think there is still a good chance for Egypt, Libya, Algeria and Tunisia to join in the Block-II JF-17s and also to invest in K-8 Block-II development...
Yeah, Turkey can involved with us, we know they have great experiences but remember this is joint cooperation between Pakistan and China. Turkish doesn't like China.
He talked about Turkey engineers on JF-17s upgrading.
BTW, what's your IQ Level? You seem constantly making off-topic or doesn't make sense to accurate the points. Please kindly let me know what's your IQ Level mentality?
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Wow, oil leaking rust under engines, no wonder many countries would not be willing to purchase this planes. I am surprised that our maintenances still ignore this matter, we have never seen worst oil brown leaking.
The prices for this plane should be 30% reduce to 3 or 5 million each if engines doesn't improved on oil leaking & overload testing. Do you think, anyone would to buy used car with oil rust???
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Yeah, Turkey can involved with us, we know they have great experiences but remember this is joint cooperation between Pakistan and China. Turkish doesn't like China.
He talked about Turkey engineers on JF-17s upgrading.
BTW, what's your IQ Level? You seem constantly making off-topic or doesn't make sense to accurate the points. Please kindly let me know what's your IQ Level mentality?
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Wow, oil leaking rust under engines, no wonder many countries would not be willing to purchase this planes. I am surprised that our maintenances still ignore this matter, we have never seen worst oil brown leaking.
The prices for this plane should be 30% reduce to 3 or 5 million each if engines doesn't improved on oil leaking & overload testing. Do you think, anyone would to buy used car with oil rust???
My IQ seems to be somewhere between 134 (a few months ago) and 143 (highest score). Anyway. That "leak" is not what you think. I have some pics that explains that there is a dump vent of fuel and oil during certain engine parameters. If you fly around longer then the result is this what you see... Same can be seen if you use canon of the f16 first time after it is greased... Looks terrible but that is what these planes are meant for. Use them and they get dirty... And the JF17 is meant to be a workhorse... That should be very very clear. They are not going to polish it over and over again to amuse us.
Windjammer. You amaze me with these fantastic pics. Good to see we have adopted the dummy weapon usage. And the same colors as China.
About dual F16D... Yeah, those are not exactly trainers. And indeed at the moment PAF pilots are peaking like no other after a few decades of battle training (without decent weapons) and now with these superb birds. Most of the pilots have been used/spoiled with latest weaponry for two decades and are no longer as proficient as PAF is in tactics.
Most people will not see it but the JF17 has lots of Mirage TOT. And indeed F16
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That bold is important, yes JF-17's engines are working hard to fly longer the more we see this results happening often, it is not good sign. Yes, I have seen F16's canon is acceptable and standard but not engines we never seen other advanced planes. I don't see any reasons why other countries should purchase this planes, let's kick out our Chinese and Pakistanis engineers for this bad exposures.
Sir, you always make excellent points, I wouldn't ask your IQ level but our @Nishan_101 constantly use alot of weird comments you obviously see what he is saying. Pakistan should buy this or that. Something wrong on mentality, no offense I apologize.
I was not offended. This is typical my rude Dutch character
No need to apologize!
The JF17 is not high end plane. Most of us want to see it that way but Jf17 block 1 is same as Gripen A or F16 block 15 minus the bvr option we had. Now block 2 comes near f16 block40-52. Some options might be better (cockpit MFD bigger, in house ECM, DRFM, internal combat training pod etc) but some are less. We can alter and tweak it much easier so it has growth potential. Certainly if it gets AESA and better engine.
The engine is very good if you ask me. Simple and robust. Good spool up time. Very reliable. And can handle rugged and dirty handling a lot better then alternatives. It is a lot improved compared to good old rd33. Just look at the old Mig29 pictures. And do remember that Phantom flew with just as dirty engines. Whether is is bad or not? Well, WVR maybe a little but you could better use the term that more power is better. That means the engines need to have a lot better structure and control (Fadec). But that translates directly into a lot more expensive parts, more quality maintenance and better trained engineers. If you want to have a rugged and tough plane then the RD93 is just fine. I have seen, touched both RD33 and PW engines very often. Spoke to the engineers. Both are just fine. I think that we made a good choice. The JF17 is a light fighterjet. Surely we want to add more and more but the design is still a light fighterjet. If you compare it with F16 then just remember that the opposite of the F16 was Mig29 which has two rd33!
No need to apologize!
The JF17 is not high end plane. Most of us want to see it that way but Jf17 block 1 is same as Gripen A or F16 block 15 minus the bvr option we had. Now block 2 comes near f16 block40-52. Some options might be better (cockpit MFD bigger, in house ECM, DRFM, internal combat training pod etc) but some are less. We can alter and tweak it much easier so it has growth potential. Certainly if it gets AESA and better engine.
The engine is very good if you ask me. Simple and robust. Good spool up time. Very reliable. And can handle rugged and dirty handling a lot better then alternatives. It is a lot improved compared to good old rd33. Just look at the old Mig29 pictures. And do remember that Phantom flew with just as dirty engines. Whether is is bad or not? Well, WVR maybe a little but you could better use the term that more power is better. That means the engines need to have a lot better structure and control (Fadec). But that translates directly into a lot more expensive parts, more quality maintenance and better trained engineers. If you want to have a rugged and tough plane then the RD93 is just fine. I have seen, touched both RD33 and PW engines very often. Spoke to the engineers. Both are just fine. I think that we made a good choice. The JF17 is a light fighterjet. Surely we want to add more and more but the design is still a light fighterjet. If you compare it with F16 then just remember that the opposite of the F16 was Mig29 which has two rd33!
Nishan_101
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Although if the corrupt Govt. was not there in the past then there was a huge possibility that PAC will be producing almost 50-70% of JF-17s, K-8s and Super Mushak spares along with private vendors locally and also assembling engines too which can increase their quality which Russians don't give.
More over we can easily see a 100+ JF-17s Block-I that would helping out to replace not only A-5C but also some 50 Mirages as well.
I wrote in the last 6 months o
I wrote 6 months before Zardari ended his corrupt democratic government that PAC had not even the electric power to weld... They had received zero dollars to buy the JF17 parts for more then two years... The Chinese had stopped everything cause Zardari wanted a few millions for every delivered JF17 plane (the same move as Mirage2000 deal that was managed by a famous poster on Pakdef). So there is a lot of truth in your post Nishan.
I wrote 6 months before Zardari ended his corrupt democratic government that PAC had not even the electric power to weld... They had received zero dollars to buy the JF17 parts for more then two years... The Chinese had stopped everything cause Zardari wanted a few millions for every delivered JF17 plane (the same move as Mirage2000 deal that was managed by a famous poster on Pakdef). So there is a lot of truth in your post Nishan.
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And how military establishment allowed Zardari to toy with such a strategic project?
Donatello
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I was not offended. This is typical my rude Dutch character
No need to apologize!
The JF17 is not high end plane. Most of us want to see it that way but Jf17 block 1 is same as Gripen A or F16 block 15 minus the bvr option we had. Now block 2 comes near f16 block40-52. Some options might be better (cockpit MFD bigger, in house ECM, DRFM, internal combat training pod etc) but some are less. We can alter and tweak it much easier so it has growth potential. Certainly if it gets AESA and better engine.
The engine is very good if you ask me. Simple and robust. Good spool up time. Very reliable. And can handle rugged and dirty handling a lot better then alternatives. It is a lot improved compared to good old rd33. Just look at the old Mig29 pictures. And do remember that Phantom flew with just as dirty engines. Whether is is bad or not? Well, WVR maybe a little but you could better use the term that more power is better. That means the engines need to have a lot better structure and control (Fadec). But that translates directly into a lot more expensive parts, more quality maintenance and better trained engineers. If you want to have a rugged and tough plane then the RD93 is just fine. I have seen, touched both RD33 and PW engines very often. Spoke to the engineers. Both are just fine. I think that we made a good choice. The JF17 is a light fighterjet. Surely we want to add more and more but the design is still a light fighterjet. If you compare it with F16 then just remember that the opposite of the F16 was Mig29 which has two rd33!
I take your points, appreciate your summary. Let's get over with engines, I am not satisfied but PAF's requirements is good enough. We shall see Block 2 soon, it wouldn't be big differences despite having latest air refueling.
razgriz19
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Yeah, Turkey can involved with us, we know they have great experiences but remember this is joint cooperation between Pakistan and China. Turkish doesn't like China.
He talked about Turkey engineers on JF-17s upgrading.
BTW, what's your IQ Level? You seem constantly making off-topic or doesn't make sense to accurate the points. Please kindly let me know what's your IQ Level mentality?
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Wow, oil leaking rust under engines, no wonder many countries would not be willing to purchase this planes. I am surprised that our maintenances still ignore this matter, we have never seen worst oil brown leaking.
The prices for this plane should be 30% reduce to 3 or 5 million each if engines doesn't improved on oil leaking & overload testing. Do you think, anyone would to buy used car with oil rust???
First of all, its just burnt oil stains, not oil rust.
Second, it comes from "vents" that are located all around the engine cowlings.
Jet engines like to throw out oil every now and then, its not the engine problem!
its the oil/air separator that's not working properly, or either they over serviced this engine. In both cases oil would be thrown out. It is of course something they might want to look into it. Its not a serious problem however.
I spend most of my nights in a hangar filled with 737-800ER, all of them have oil stains under and around the engine
here is a pic of an F-14
Ohh I forgot to mention one important aspect of all jet engines.
Bearing are sealed with compressor bleed air. Upon engine shut down, scavenge pumps are suppose to suck oil back to the sump. Sometime they don't do it properly or on time, and as a result excess oil drips into compressors and engine compartments where they have drain holes that are vented to atmosphere. This can also be a possibility why these engines are "running dirty"
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