JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 5]

[Chak Bamu]

Resolving The CM-400AKG Supersonic ASM Conundrum
TRISHUL

Did any one read this?

Just went through this. Seems like Indians have no answer to it, yet. The only issue would be that JF-17 would have to get within 180-190 KM (my calcs based on launch distance of 220 KM) of the target. If we can cover that then everything is fine. The author's issue with IIR guidance and his question relating to data-link pod can be ignored.

I just wish we can somehow find a way to have a dedicated hard point for pods under the fuselage. Perhaps the port side underbelly might be a good place, if possible? Otherwise we are looking at much shorter strike distance for JF-17 that would have to make do without external fuel tanks.

That longer line is most probably static IFR.... Look at Mirage IFR probe pics and compare it with

Has anyone noticed the slightly raised canopy? The bulge looks like a part of the design and must be present on the other side as well. If this bulge has something to do with IFR, then where is the IFR itself? There is something there that we can not account for yet. I hope it is a pleasant surprise.

 

[Bratva]

Just went through this. Seems like Indians have no answer to it, yet. The only issue would be that JF-17 would have to get within 180-190 KM (my calcs based on launch distance of 220 KM) of the target. If we can cover that then everything is fine. The author's issue with IIR guidance and his question relating to data-link pod can be ignored.

I just wish we can somehow find a way to have a dedicated hard point for pods under the fuselage. Perhaps the port side underbelly might be a good place, if possible? Otherwise we are looking at much shorter strike distance for JF-17 that would have to make do without external fuel tanks.



Has anyone noticed the slightly raised canopy? The bulge looks like a part of the design and must be present on the other side as well. If this bulge has something to do with IFR, then where is the IFR itself? There is something there that we can not account for yet. I hope it is a pleasant surprise.

Bamu Sahab, they did say ECM being upgraded, perhaps dorsel spine being raised a little further which may be the reason of raised canopy?

IIRC, conceptual design of Block 3 did had a distinct DSI.

 

[fatman17]

detailed article has appeared in the Dec-13 issue of AIR-International magazine. besides the information we are aware of, it has some interesting details.....

2010 - the PAF had only one JF-17 unit - 26 Squadron with 20 aircraft. the training syallabus was approved in 2010. the only weapons it could carry were GP bombs and the WVR PL-5EII missile.

today the JF-17 can carry the BVR SD-10 and a number of PG weapons for the ATG role.

today the PAF has an fully operational JF-17 unit at Peshawar - 16 Squadron. 26 Squadron is now responsible for conversion training for pilots.

today the 3rd Squadron is about to be formed but PAF is un-decided which Squadron will re-equip with the JF-17.

a total of 40 JF-17s are flying with a last few (~9) from Block 1 in the final stages of assembly & testing.

Pakistan's investment in the JF-17 project was $500m with 50% share in production of components and complete final assembly line.

the JF-17 is fully adapted to the PAF requirements for a new combat aircraft.

PAF pilots and engineers are responsible for 90% of the JF-17s system architecture and cockpit design.

Man Machine Interface:
The JF-17s cockpit resembles that of the Swedish Saab JAS39 Gripen. the Gripen was a great inspiration when PAF started with the development of the JF-17 program.

the symbology on the cockpit displays is similar to that used in the F-16 which the PAF also operates. keeping the same symbology across the PAF's fighter fleet significantly eases, and lowers the cost of training.

Flight Control System:
another feature seperating the JF-17 from 2nd gen. fighters is its hybrid flight control system. modern electronic flight control systems offer greater manoeuvrability. it has only one electronic channel for pitch, the other two for bank and yaw are mechanical.

however with technology advancement, so now a fully digital flight control system that is only 10% more expensive than the current hydrid one is on the drawing board.

the hybrid flight control system is still a huge improvement over mechanical systems - "by knowing the computer will not allow me to exceed the AoA and g-force limit - 26 degrees or 8g - whichever comes first - the pilot can fly this aircraft more aggressively".

Proven Engine:
the engine chosen for the JF-17 is the Russian Klimov RD-93. it lags behind western counterparts in terms of fuel consumption and time between overhauls, but its good build quality stemming from its soviet origins gives it an excellent reputation for solidity and reliability. "PAF has flown 7,000 hours with the engine without any problems".

the engine is very robust. while it dosnt have a FADEC, a digital electronic engine control system (EEC) gives it carefree operations about engine management until the pilot intervenes.

a further testament to its reliability comes from the 'hot and high' trials conducted from an airfield at 7,000ft (2,133m) above mean sea level in ambient temps of between 25 and 30*C (77-86*F) with full weapons load.

to further reduce weight and complexity of the JF-17, a novel inlet design called DSI was adopted. the DSI dosnt have any moving parts so its lighter and easier to maintain. the hump at the inlet's opening has been designed to hide the face of the engine's compressor blades, minimising the JF-17's already low radar signature.

Weapons Flexibility:
the JF-17 affords the PAF flexibility in integrating new weapons and features the MIL-STD-1760 aircraft/store electrical interconnection system on all hardpoints. this eliminates the need to rewire the aircraft every time a new weapon is added."we can buy any weapon on the free market and integrate it on the JF-17 on our own and in-country". the whole process is done by a flight test group of the PAF.

the development and integration of a helmet-mounted sight (HMS) is already underway on the Block 1 aircraft.

Sensors:
the JF-17's primary sensor for A2A combat is the KLJ-7 radar developed by NRIET of China. its a scaled down version of the KLJ-10 developed for the J-10, with a range thats matched to that of the SD-10 missile, two of which are carried in standard A2A configuration. "we have the capability to carry four but we decided we dont want to so as to carry more fuel".

standard configuration includes:
2 SD-10 BVR
2 PL-5EII WVR
2 or 3 external 1000 litre (219 Imp gallon) fuel tanks on wing stations and an 800 litre (175 Imp gallon on the centerline station.

for self defence the JF-17 is equipped with a fully integrated EWS which is not of chinese origin. it comes with full ground support systems - enabling the PAF to develop threat libraries and jamming techniques. it has four major sub-systems; RWR ; MAWS; flare and chaff dispenser and a jammer.

for ATG combat the JF-17's primary sensor is an inertial navigation/GPS system which provides continuously computed release point (CCRP) and constantly computed release point (CCIP) sight modes - and are critical to the accurate delivery of general-purpose bombs.

to be continued...

 

[fatman17]

Precision Weapons;
for more complex scenarios, PGM's will be carried. "at the moment we are using a combination of PGM's of different origins'.

at airshow china 2012, the JF-17 was presented with the LT-2 LGB and several of the LS-6 family of long range GPS and laser / GPS guided bombs. the bombs route to the target can be pre-programmed so an attack can be executed from a stand-off distance.

the true value of these weapons comes from their compatability with China's satellite navigation system, the Beidou which currently covers only China and neighbouring countries. but from 2020 when more than 30 satellites will be in orbit, the coverage will give China and its allies, including Pakistan, total independence from the American GPS system.

for the anti-shipping role, two C-802A missiles can be carried on the JF-17's inner wing stations - or for the suppression of enemy air defence (SEAD) role, two Brazilian MAR-1's.

at last years airshow China the jet was also presented with the CM-400AKG LAM but it is not known if the weapon is operational with the PAF.

Networking:
"the security of a data-link is a national matter - we dont want somebody else reading our information, so we developed our own system for the JF-17. we are now working to connect it with the Link 16 we have on our AWACS and F-16 fleets".

the idea is to use strategically dispersed ground relay stations to translate and then retransmit signals between different systems. the current status of the program is classified.

Operational Employment:
the JF-17 squadrons are now fully qualified for QRA duties for air defense. in the ATG role the JF-17 has not seen combat in the FATA in the north of Pakistan; but it has been extensively used in excercises, both PAF organised and in 2011's Excercise Shaheen 1 held jointly with the Chinese.

the PAF JF-17s flew dissimalar air combat (DCAT) sorties against PLAAF Sukhoi SU-27s.

Two-seater?
for the PAF a two-seat JF-17 is completely out of the picture. "the aircraft is very easy to fly, even easier than the F-16, so we developed a training concept and wont need a two-seater".

"we are not yet taking pilots for the JF-17 directly from the academy, but we are taking young pilots from the F-7 squadrons and developing a full mission simulator with A2A, ATG, EW, AR and NVG capabilities".

to be continued.....

 

[Gryphon]

Does anyone have pics of JF-17 (serial: 7-101 to 09-110) having squadron marks on tail. Like these two

 

[Manticore]

 

[Rafi]

JF17 has achieved virtually everything we wanted from the program.

 

[Tempest II]

That longer line is most probably IFR.... Look at Mirage IFR probe pics

Don't know why but it looks Retractable IFR :/ :/

Good point/reasoning. Makes sense.

 

[Bratva]

Good point/reasoning. Makes sense.

Hence it also explains why canopy seems to be little raised

 

[Tempest II]

we can only speculate, so lets speculate somemore. ... ... The rib below the canopy is for IFR plumbing ... ... they then needed more space infront of the canopy for the IFR mechanisms, ... they extended the nose altogether (hence the F-5 look) ... ... the moved the pitot and AOA probes closer to the cockpit and the radar further out ... the IFR will be between the probes and the radome.

 

[Bratva]

we can only speculate, so lets speculate somemore. ... ... The rib below the canopy is for IFR plumbing ... ... they then needed more space infront of the canopy for the IFR mechanisms, ... they extended the nose altogether (hence the F-5 look) ... ... the moved the pitot and AOA probes closer to the cockpit and the radar further out ... the IFR will be between the probes and the radome.

Hmmm,,, if that's assumption is correct then Block 1 can't be fitted with IFR

 

[Munir]

As far as I know the model is just a model. It is not block 2 or representing something for block 2. I miss certain aspects (I know) are part of block 2 and not here to be seen in the model.

 

[Pinnacle]

IRST

How are you so sure about all these modifications ....?

 

[Superboy]

How are you so sure about all these modifications ....?

Because the Chinese always put the latest technologies in planes. Cost is not a concern in China. In fact, the more costly, the more contribution to economy.

 

[Pinnacle]

Because the Chinese always put the latest technologies in planes. Cost is not a concern in China. In fact, the more costly, the more contribution to economy.

cost is not problem in china but it matters in Pakistan because we are 50-50 partners .our economy is on hold these days....