JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 4]

[Safriz]

surely JF-17 credit goes to musharraf...
his interest and contribution made it possible for Pakistan to see the plane flying.
Now..thanks to Asif Ghaddari....we wont see any new addition to PAF because the funds needed wont get released...
J-10a for PLAAF up and running.....but J-10b which was made for PAF requirements is still yellow with a few prototypes flying because the main customer pakistan wont pay....
I couldnt find anything that says J-10b has been officially declared operational..

 

[fatman17]

surely JF-17 credit goes to musharraf...
his interest and contribution made it possible for Pakistan to see the plane flying.
Now..thanks to Asif Ghaddari....we wont see any new addition to PAF because the funds needed wont get released...
J-10a for PLAAF up and running.....but J-10b which was made for PAF requirements is still yellow with a few prototypes flying because the main customer pakistan wont pay....
I couldnt find anything that says J-10b has been officially declared operational..

the credit goes to ACM Mushaf Mir who decided to 'de-link' the avionic of the a/c from the rest of the program as it was getting delayed. musharraf just gave it the political support.

 

[ziaulislam]

an excellent and wise decision by the then chief.....

 

[Farooqi1]

Twin engine fighter jets like J-11/J-15 CANNOT come to Pakistan's Air Force NOW. Maybe after another decade....

I heard just for the F-16 for every flight you're paying like thousands of dollars in maintenance. Single Engine jets can be every bit as capable. Why purchase two engines, when it is huge in size, which will also effect runway size, hanger size change, and new trainers...
Not only do MOST twin engines jets have huge RCS, their speeds and manoeuvring are as equal as single engined jets.The only advantage i see is Range....


A single engine jet like JF-17 is every bit as capable. In today's modern fighter jets like JF-17 you are looking for it to carry weapons like BVR, Short Air to Air, Anti-Radiation Missiles, Cruise Missiles Anti-Shipping, Smart Percision Bombs, carry Pods and jammers, capable of carrying 7 or more hard points, 120km+ Radar Range, 4.5 Generation Avionics --- easy and time saving for pilots

I could bring huge counter arguments but I thought we have closed this debate. I was talking about change in political spectrum. No more discussion about twine vs single from my side.

 

[Farooqi1]

surely JF-17 credit goes to musharraf...
his interest and contribution made it possible for Pakistan to see the plane flying.
Now..thanks to Asif Ghaddari....we wont see any new addition to PAF because the funds needed wont get released...
J-10a for PLAAF up and running.....but J-10b which was made for PAF requirements is still yellow with a few prototypes flying because the main customer pakistan wont pay....
I couldnt find anything that says J-10b has been officially declared operational..

Safriz:

I believe the original deal for J-10B to be operational in 2015.

 

[Areesh]

Well Areesh

Let me give you a news I AM A MUCH BIGGER FAN OF JFT THEN YOU. Because I have accepted it with all of goods and short comings. You know why accepting and realizing the short comings is important because so that we could overcome those shortcomings and constantly make improvements. And yes this is the best thing PAF did but only to the extent defending against Bangladesh and Siri Lanka.

The bold is where you are completely wrong. May be because you are just a fan on internet who simply searches on Google and takes out the simple characteristics of two different aircraft and then gives judgement that aircraft A sucks since it lacks this and this according to my Google search. The people who know about modern warfare are very much fan of JFT and consider it a very good weapon for PAF to counter it's arch rival. And I agree with them.

The bold part is something that has ruined this thread and sad part is you are still stubborn to keep repeating the same stuff. Won't going to further talk about this issue since at least I don't want to further derail this thread. Bye

 

[Farooqi1]

The bold is where you are completely wrong. May be because you are just a fan on internet who simply searches on Google and takes out the simple characteristics of two different aircraft and then gives judgement that aircraft A sucks since it lacks this and this according to my Google search. The people who know about modern warfare are very much fan of JFT and consider it a very good weapon for PAF to counter it's arch rival. And I agree with them.

The bold part is something that has ruined this thread and sad part is you are still stubborn to keep repeating the same stuff. Won't going to further talk about this issue since at least I don't want to further derail this thread. Bye

Thanks appreciate it

 

[pshamim]

=Farooqi1;

How are we going to get the air superiority when we don't have any projects in place? Every time I bring in JFT every one start saying that air superiority was not intended purpose of JFT. [/

In response to your above post in a different thread, I may state that you need to understand aircrafts and its classifications and roles. If you did you will learn that JFT was developed as a true multirole aircraft. Being a multirole aircraft, it has already been certified for certain roles and tests are continuing to add more capabilities.

You also need to look a variety of weapons which can only be used for a particular roles. For example, a SD-10B will not be used for a maritime role or a a2g role. These BVR missile will only be used for air superiority/air dominance roles.

Same way, Thunder has been tested with C-803 for a maritime role and these missile cannot be used for an air superiority. We all know that various weapons including MAR-1 can be used for a2g roles only.

The only PAF aircrafts which could be called the MRCAs were Sabers and to some extent the F-16s. I see Pakistan and china are developing the aircraft in line with Tornadoes which was developed keeping in mind having multi role. We may bicker/argue about weaknesses here and there but believe me PAF does know and aware of these issues and constantly workig to rectify such weaknesses. This aircraft is evolving continuously and rapid growth has even surprised me. I usually have very goof resources and generally aware of the developments but been surprised by finding out what I do not know.

So be patient and look forward to good things yet to come.

 

[Armstrong]

Two noobish questions :

• Why doesn't the Government issue Bonds (kind of but not exactly like a War Bond) to not only fund our role in the War on Terror but perhaps also divert some of those finances to Military Acquisitions including the JF-17 development !
• Separately why doesn't PAC Kamra (or even some of our other Military Complexes) incorporate themselves and issue an IPO to rope in greater foreign investment ? I'm sure we produce some pretty decent stuff at competitive prices so wouldn't Aselan or the CAC or some of the Gulf-Firms be interested in investing. Those finances can be used by Pakistan both upgrade the facility and increase the range of products produced there and we could also invest some of that money further into the JF-17 program !

 

[Donatello]

Two noobish questions :

• Why doesn't the Government issue Bonds (kind of but not exactly like a War Bond) to not only fund our role in the War on Terror but perhaps also divert some of those finances to Military Acquisitions including the JF-17 development !
• Separately why doesn't PAC Kamra (or even some of our other Military Complexes) incorporate themselves and issue an IPO to rope in greater foreign investment ? I'm sure we produce some pretty decent stuff at competitive prices so wouldn't Aselan or the CAC or some of the Gulf-Firms be interested in investing. Those finances can be used by Pakistan both upgrade the facility and increase the range of products produced there and we could also invest some of that money further into the JF-17 program !

You tell me,

Will you buy bonds issued by the unstable Government of Pakistan?

Bonds need guarantee. What are we going to guarantee?

 

[Armstrong]

You tell me,

Will you buy bonds issued by the unstable Government of Pakistan?

Bonds need guarantee. What are we going to guarantee?

The Government has only just defaulted on its 'sovereign guarantee' it hadn't a year or even a few months ago; additionally Bonds are virtually a risk free investment because the Government can always raise taxes or print more money (though that comes with problems of its own) to pay back or do a combination of both !

Either way the second part of my question still stands ? Why hasn't any of our Military Complexes roped in a decent amount of investment ? I hear Aselan (and others) are investing in Jordan, in the UAE and some other Arab countries but surely some of Pakistan's military manufacturing concerns provide an equal (if not better in some cases) amount of incentive to invest in some of the things that we manufacture ?

P.S If Zardari and the current Government is the reason for either of the above then why weren't any developments made on that during Musharaf's time when our economy and our International Standing was considerably better ?

 

[Farooqi1]

In response to your above post in a different thread, I may state that you need to understand aircrafts and its classifications and roles. If you did you will learn that JFT was developed as a true multirole aircraft. Being a multirole aircraft, it has already been certified for certain roles and tests are continuing to add more capabilities.

You also need to look a variety of weapons which can only be used for a particular roles. For example, a SD-10B will not be used for a maritime role or a a2g role. These BVR missile will only be used for air superiority/air dominance roles.

Same way, Thunder has been tested with C-803 for a maritime role and these missile cannot be used for an air superiority. We all know that various weapons including MAR-1 can be used for a2g roles only.

The only PAF aircrafts which could be called the MRCAs were Sabers and to some extent the F-16s. I see Pakistan and china are developing the aircraft in line with Tornadoes which was developed keeping in mind having multi role. We may bicker/argue about weaknesses here and there but believe me PAF does know and aware of these issues and constantly workig to rectify such weaknesses. This aircraft is evolving continuously and rapid growth has even surprised me. I usually have very goof resources and generally aware of the developments but been surprised by finding out what I do not know.

So be patient and look forward to good things yet to come.

Well Advised sir Pshamim.

 

[alimobin memon]

I have heard that JF17 Navalized version is to be integrated in PLA Navy named as JF 15.

 

[MastanKhan]

The bold is where you are completely wrong. May be because you are just a fan on internet who simply searches on Google and takes out the simple characteristics of two different aircraft and then gives judgement that aircraft A sucks since it lacks this and this according to my Google search. The people who know about modern warfare are very much fan of JFT and consider it a very good weapon for PAF to counter it's arch rival. And I agree with them.

The bold part is something that has ruined this thread and sad part is you are still stubborn to keep repeating the same stuff. Won't going to further talk about this issue since at least I don't want to further derail this thread. Bye

Hi,

Could you please share with us who those people are who know about modern warfare---other than the paf officers---did you have access to another group of people.

So---who was the muslim caliph---I think it was Haroon al Rashid---a bedouin came to his court and says''Ya khalifa I found the sweetest water in the desert---here I brought some for you'---the caliph tasted the water and gave some reward to the bedouin---after the guy left the clever wazir tastes the water---makes a bitter face and spits out the water saying---this water does not taste good---to that the khalifa replied----wzir---where this man comes from---the water tastes worst than this---so when he tasted this water---it tasted sweeter to him and thus he brought it for me to share the sweeter water---.

Thus similiar is the case with these knowers of modern warfare pakistani air force---- a day earlier they did not have planes which could fly--so in comparison to those sanction prone aircaft---indeed the jf17 is a gem---nobody disagrees with that---but awarding them of the tilte of being 'those knowing modern warfare is a bit far fetched'---. They just barely scratched the surface of modern warfare----.


You know what is the most important saying amongst the aviation engineers---'if it looks good---it will fly good'.

cb4,

Every option on the JF 17 is a good option---all the systems on the jf17 are good systems---but they are not extra ordinary systems. Every weapons system is inducted in the millitary on the basis of who and what it is going to fight against---so what systems does this aircraft have that will counter the enemy's frontline su30's.

I keeping repeating he name su30----because as its name brings out---it is an air dominance air superiority fighter aircraft---it is going to provide air superiority over indian and over pakistani air space right from the word go---its job is to dominate the skies with its weaponery---with a weapons load of 4 time more bvr missiles---a massive radar---a right in your face kind of presence---

 

[MastanKhan]

Pshamim,

These are all very goods system on the jf17's---there are no ifs and buts about it---but the problem is the very good systems are not the answer all the way---untill and unless you have some systems that are extra-ordinary.

You are a warrior---you know very well---that in order for your weaker system to succeed---your primary system need to have the strength to smash thru the frontline enemy aircraft to give a headway to for faster and nimble forces to move in.

Over 2000 years ago the roman armies had triarii a heavy equipped force that would smash through the opposing armies center to make way for the faster and agile forces---the roman general Pompey uses this technique against he massive army of Spartacus---even though the romans are out numbered by the Spartacans---the Spartacans don't have any answer for the heavy armoured roman troops.

When Ghenghis Khan attacks any place anywhere---what advantage does his millitary have over the enemy----his soldiers havefaster moving horses and those soldiers can launch missiles ( arrows ) from a much longer distance than their opponents---relentlessly--where everyone of his soldiers carries around what do the historians say---60 to 80 to a 100 arrows in two quivers----which gives them a similiar advantage to a bvr---because the mongol missile can out distances a muslim missile---plus the mongol carries more missile per sortie---and what happened to the muslim armies----the muslim soldiers were holding their shields in front of them and hiding under the shields and the shields were being filled up with the strikes of he arrows and getting hevaier and heavier and the muslim sldiers were getting tired while holding the shields full of arrows stuck on them and when the close assault starts they have to dump their shields---they are physically tired---they have already lost the battle---.

As much the things and technology changes---so much it stays closer to its origin---the basic fundamentals of warfare have not changed---.

That is why I keep telling you kids---read history---read of those who concquered you---read of those who defeated you---read withut prejudiceand read without anger to learn---.

Again---I agree with everyone--JF17 is a great aircraft by itself---but in comparison to what---?