JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 4]

[Safriz]

Didn't my words come true?

JF-17 will quite remained a Pakistan aviation project. Dont say I didn't warn you. AVIC might even snatch away the 6 JF-17 deal intended to be ordered by Sri Lanka Airforce and replaced them with JL-15 eagle.

JL-15 already bag a foreign customer order of 12 even before its commissioned.

It will be the premier product offer by AVIC as a budget fighter but with decent advance features.

quitting customers such as pakistan and not providing after sales service will dent china's repo as weapons seller and wont win much trust .

 

[Beast]

guess who? Pakistan

Africa customers....

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

guess who? Pakistan

Egypt Sir, most probably. L-15 has no place in PAF.

Didn't my words come true?

AVIC might even snatch away the 6 JF-17 deal intended to be ordered by Sri Lanka Airforce and replaced them with JL-15 eagle.

I or anyone else here cannot digest that easily, L-15 is a light attack aircraft / Trainer while JF-17 is single seat multirole fighter having capabilities beyond a trainer reach. how will L-15 fulfill the needs of BVR, ASM, ARM, PGM capabilities while these are a few to name out of several JF-17 roles. L-15 can't ever bigger radar as Jf-17, let alone the onboard radar jamming. HOW ?

 

[Beast]

quitting customers such as pakistan and not providing after sales service will dent china's repo as weapons seller and wont win much trust .

When did China cease after sales services? Actually, China loses money in JF-17 deal. JF-17 development cost is stated at USD 1billion with AVIC taking $500million and remaining $500million by PAF. Initial specification is to be a plane 75% as capable as F-16 block 30. PAF suddenly make a U-turn and demand a raise in spec but without additional injection of development. China being a good friend and responsible partner, not even asking Pakistan for a single cent and absorb all the development cost and manage to produce and complete JF-17 pt04 in such a short time with implement a lot of advance technology from China like DSI, 3 large multi glass cockpit.

USD 1 billion development cost only. Ask around who can produce developed such a fighter jet with such cost and time? That's impossible. China absorb all the remaining cost overun, without asking its partner for additonal cost. Check with the Indian about their dear Russia, how much addtional cost they ask when project delay or problem springs up.

I don't think its far too much AVIC expect to bag and collect all the profits for itself. If we were to allow JF-17 flourish, we still needs to split 50/50 profit with Pakistan and not to mention , engine pay for Russian engine.

 

[Beast]

Egypt Sir, most probably. L-15 has no place in PAF.



I or anyone else here cannot digest that easily, L-15 is a light attack aircraft / Trainer while JF-17 is single seat multirole fighter having capabilities beyond a trainer reach. how will L-15 fulfill the needs of BVR, ASM, ARM, PGM capabilities while these are a few to name out of several JF-17 roles. L-15 can't ever bigger radar as Jf-17, let alone the onboard radar jamming. HOW ?

KAI T-50 Golden Eagle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Check out what radar it uses... EL/M-2032

T-50 golden eagle is same as JL-15, advance trainer but why did it fitted with such powerful radar for a trainer?

According to the latest rumour, if customer fork out slightly more money, a PESA radar is ready to be used on JL-15.

Check out the latest spec of JL-15. The final configuration is fitted with 2 afterburner that can produced 4200kg thrust of engine each. Which means final 8400kg of thrust, Enough to match JF-17.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/chines...ract-chinese-l-15-jet-trainer-production.html

 

[Safriz]

When did China cease after sales services? Actually, China loses money in JF-17 deal. JF-17 development cost is stated at USD 1billion with AVIC taking $500million and remaining $500million. Initial specification is to be a plane 75% as capable as F-16 block 30. PAF suddenly make a U-turn and demand a raise in spec but without additional injection of development. China being a good friend and responsible partner, not even asking Pakistan for a single cent and absorb all the development cost and manage to produce and complete JF-17 pt04 in such a short time with implement a lot of advance technology from China like DSI, 3 large multi glass cockpit.

USD 1 billion development cost only. Ask around who can produce developed such a fighter jet with such cost and time? That's impossible. China absorb all the remaining cost overun, without asking its partner for additonal cost. Check with the Indian about their dear Russia, how much addtional cost they ask when project delay or problem springs up.

I don't think its far too much AVIC expect to bag and collect all the profits for itself. If we were to allow JF-17 flourish, we still needs to split 50/50 profit with Pakistan and not to mention , engine pay for Russian engine.

put it this way...
two people put together money and hoped that it will be recovered by later sales which didnt happen..
both are to be blamed...
Plus without PAF'S input JF-17 program had gone nowhere..
China had no idea what an F-16 looks like from inside..PAF had all that knowledge..
Just chinese money hadnt built the plane..the failed super-7 project is an example.....Many years of work and no output..
So PAF 's contribution in providing vital information about F-16 offsets the lack of funding...

 

[Beast]

put it this way...
two people put together money and hoped that it will be recovered by later sales which didnt happen..
both are to be blamed...
Plus without PAF'S input JF-17 program had gone nowhere..
China had no idea what an F-16 looks like from inside..PAF had all that knowledge..
Just chinese money hadnt built the plane..the failed super-7 project is an example.....Many years of work and no output..
So PAF 's contribution in providing vital information about F-16 offsets the lack of funding...

China don't need JF-17, all along it is concentrating on J-10.

 

[Argus Panoptes]

put it this way...
two people put together money and hoped that it will be recovered by later sales which didnt happen..
both are to be blamed...
Plus without PAF'S input JF-17 program had gone nowhere..
China had no idea what an F-16 looks like from inside..PAF had all that knowledge..
Just chinese money hadnt built the plane..the failed super-7 project is an example.....Many years of work and no output..
So PAF 's contribution in providing vital information about F-16 offsets the lack of funding...

There is no need to say things like this, because when we complain about the lack of trust with USA, it only provides an example that there are reasons for the mistrust on both sides.

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

put it this way...
two people put together money and hoped that it will be recovered by later sales which didnt happen..
both are to be blamed...
Plus without PAF'S input JF-17 program had gone nowhere..
China had no idea what an F-16 looks like from inside..PAF had all that knowledge..
Just chinese money hadnt built the plane..the failed super-7 project is an example.....Many years of work and no output..
So PAF 's contribution in providing vital information about F-16 offsets the lack of funding...

Don't blame anybody man, we are as a nation and as a country, get screwed up by everyone. First it was USA and soon it will be China.
We should be independent and thats what we cant .... So carry on being screwed.

 

[Safriz]

China don't need JF-17, all along it is concentrating on J-10.

It was never meant for local consumption..was built as an export product.
if the plane is that useless..why its always used as a trusted chase plane for j-20?

 

[Beast]

Don't blame anybody man, we are as a nation and as a country, get screwed up by everyone. First it was USA and soon it will be China.
We should be independent and thats what we cant .... So carry on being screwed.

It's easier than done to be independent on anytime. Only a few chosen countries with huge resources are allow to do so. Pakistan shall be contend with what its have. Not many countries are willing to make an advance 4th gen fighter like JF-17 for another countries. China loses alot of money in JF-17 joint venture.

End of the day, Pakistan has a 4th gen fighter of its own and modernisation continues. Look at your neighbour India. Despite having bigger in resources, They struggle with LCA and yet to achieved IOC, MMRCA deal falling apart. SOmetimes, people needs to be contend. AVIC will not be so stupid to share profit with others after losing the money in the first place. Its time for them to claim back it with JL-15.

 

[Safriz]

China don't need JF-17, all along it is concentrating on J-10.

It was never meant for local consumption..was built as an export product.
if the plane is that useless..why its always used as a trusted chase plane for j-20?

 

[Beast]

It was never meant for local consumption..was built as an export product.
if the plane is that useless..why its always used as a trusted chase plane for j-20?

What's so special about being a chaser for J-20? It need a carrier and that plane done its job.

The problem with JF-17 is profit needs to be share with PAF and the engine is Russian.

Ukrainian is much easier to work with. They allow their AI-222-25F to be clone in China as WS-10. There is a reason why 7billion are loan to them. Russian are much difficult to deal with. You think they are really that stupid to allow re export of RD-93 engine to others beside Pakistan and hurt their own sale? A lot of things are showmanship. Is just a show done to please the crowd.

 

[Safriz]

What's so special about being a chaser for J-20? It need a carrier and that plane done its job.

well you dont semd a chase plane which may fall off the sky or malfunction amidst a multimillion dollar experiment..Plus the plane is versitile and compatible with all the new pods chinese want to fit to it..
Chinese cant do that to their sukhoius...can they?


In addition to all that..there is no friendship for the hell of it in international politics..Countries dont spend their resources and money just on friendship thre is always a gain to be made..
If you think your rulers are stupid and blindly spending millions on Pakistan without any gain to be made...?

 

[Safriz]

What's so special about being a chaser for J-20? It need a carrier and that plane done its job.

The problem with JF-17 is profit needs to be share with PAF and the engine is Russian.

Ukrainian is much easier to work with. They allow their AI-222-25F to be clone in China as WS-10. There is a reason why 7billion are loan to them. Russian are much difficult to deal with. You think they are really that stupid to allow re export of RD-93 engine to others beside Pakistan and hurt their own sale? A lot of things are showmanship. Is just a show done to please the crowd.

yes..thats because china spectacularly failed to build a jet engine despite tall claims of being a technological giant...
even a clone ws-10 doesnt compete with any other jet engine available in international market..
Not even PLAAF pilots like ws-10 performance and export customers certainly wont..
So please blame your lack of technical knowledge on jet engines for any failures you attribute to JF-17 program..
If china had built an engine,the picture had been very different.