JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 4]

[bc040400065]

Can anyone tell me what are these weapons loaded on the outer under wing pylons in this picture???

 

[TaimiKhan]

Can anyone tell me what are these weapons loaded on the outer under wing pylons in this picture???

Cluster Bombs. These are Pak made, AWC makes them.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi santro,

For that reason, I mentioned 50--100 aircrat out of a possible total of 350 to 450 in paf inventory ( all makes )---or atleast 20% of all aircraft variations to have a dual seat version.

Paf will be playing a bigger role----actually the biggest role ever, that it has played in dominating the skies against a very sophisticated opponent---for that reason---they will have to diversify. There will be a dedicated wing for naval operations as well if not sooner than later---. Two seater is a must to have diversity---.

We will see the resultsd in the next five years.

 

[SQ8]

Probably is MK.. but at a later stage..
right now.. we need a BVR capable standardized system out there.
A two seater thunder.. in the block II series.. is a good option.. but I wonder if it will be too short legged to be used for anything other than OCA.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Probably is MK.. but at a later stage..
right now.. we need a BVR capable standardized system out there.
A two seater thunder.. in the block II series.. is a good option.. but I wonder if it will be too short legged to be used for anything other than OCA.

Well Sir, majority of the targets for PAF would be within 300-400KM of the border, that is a figure where JF-17s can easily reach and carry out their mission and return. Plus, with a more powerful engine and with more composites, JF-17 would be able to carry more heavier payload, thus it can strike with heavy payload atleast at the targets which are near by and a dual seat version can be useful in that way, plus with newer variant having more payload capacity would be able to hold more of the electronic warfare gear, thus WSO seat can be kept pretty busy and hopefully the next batch is gonna be having IFR, thus their stay in the air would be prolonged too.

So for future purposes, it seems an ideal choice.

 

[abaseen99]

Eagle Hannan Zhuhai
Eagle Hannan’s Goldmine from Zhuhai





The poster on Pakdef known as Eagle Hannan is a Pakistani engineer who works in Nanjing, China. He speaks both Urdu and Chinese fluently. He is a serious military aviation enthusiast. The city he comes from in China, Nanjing, is also the home of two of the J-10 pilots from the PLAAF that participated in the Zhuhai Air Show, 2010. He stayed at the same hotel as the PAF pilots and had many conversations with them as well as the PLAAF pilots. . Hannan attended all three public holidays and spent all three days with pilots and senior officers. Hannan has managed to collect a large amount of information and media and these have been cleared by senior personnel from the PAF for public release.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------





Hannan describes the aerobatics display of the JF-17 as brilliant. The JF-17 flew twice every day of the air show. He notes that the weather conditions were very bad and hard to take videos in. He said that the J-10s did not perform particularly well. Hannan comments that in 14 minutes of display there was a single performance of 360 and three half-hearted loops. He observes that the rest of the displays by the J-10 were formation flights. He notes that one of the Sherdil pilots comments about the J-10 pilots in Punjabi that the old men of China cannot fly their own planes.



In comparison, the JF-17s did much better. Hannan describes the Chinese crowd as going “wild” with the Thunder’s repeated tight turns, without a single one off-target from the venue.



In his conversations with the PAF, he has found out the following:



1. JF-17s will not have CFTs (Conformal Fuel Tanks).



2. The present batch of JF-17s has certain non-Chinese subsystems.



3. Air to Air missile tests for both WVR and BVR are complete.



4. PAF is impressed with the performance of SD-10s and confirms that the missile is comparable to the AMRAAM-Cs.



5. An improved SD-10s, designated here as SD-10Bs with improved range, seeker, new motor and better seeker has been tested in China on the FC-1. These missiles are marginally lighter than the first generation and are in the same standard as the best Western BVR AAMs.



The weight of the SD-10Bs still remains slightly greater than the AMRAAM Cs but this is not an issue anymore because the performance is equal or superior. The missiles displayed in Zhuhai were not the new generation SD-10Bs but the earlier model.



PAF order for the SD-10Bs will be fulfilled before PLAAF. Previous models will be upgraded to the new SD-10B standard. [Author’s note: this may suggest that PAF have provided critical input for the SD-10Bs]



6. PAF will standardize to this SD-10Bs. First 50 will have PL-9Cs as standard WVR missiles.



7. A new radar will possibly be used in the Block II JF-17s and the first block will be upgraded. These are likely to be AESA radars with a swash-plate, similar to the Gripen NG.



8. JF-17 radars are designed to be fully multirole.



9. Various new guided munitions are being tested in China. These include SDBs (Small Diameter Bombs) ideal for the light fighter class.



10. PAF’s second squadron of JF-17s is almost ready and flight trials are earmarked for early next year.



11. China is confirmed (yet again and without any doubt whatsoever) to buy the FC-1s. Consequently, production is being expanded in Pakistan’s production facilities, Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC), to meet the demand. These facilities are located in Kamra.



12. Close cooperation on the J-10B is taking place. The level of cooperation has been significantly expanded since 2009. The size of the cooperation is described as literally a small city-like facility to accommodate PAF and Pakistani civilian engineers. Hannan confirmed that civilian engineers from PAC are also part of the cooperation in China.



13. The J-10B will have Chinese radar and western subsystems will allow it to be integrated with Erieye and Chinese AWACS. This is not an assumption and Eagle Hannan, who is a telecom engineer himself, confirms that this is not a technical problem and reconfirms from PAF. There is no problem as long as the protocol messages and handshake procedures are known. He found out that PAF has a solution in terms of the middleware.



14. The middleware will not only be via a C4I but also direct communication middleware. Some of these are being developed in-house and some are being imported.



15. Whether JF-17s can data link with Erieye has not been confirmed due to diplomatic/political reasons. However, Hannan notes that from his discussions, it is implicitly obvious that they definitely can.



16. IFR (In-Flight Refueling) will be installed in later batches. These will be fixed IFRs and not retractable. [Author’s note: radar signature and aerodynamics penalty paid for simplicity of construction, cost and maintenance]. The JF-17s were designed from the ground-up to have IFRs installed.



17. Next block of JF-17s will have IRST (Infra-Red Search & Track) similar to those installed on the J-10B.



18. Pakistani ALCM Raad and H2/H4 ASM will be integrated and was a major reason why Pakistan has chosen to go with Chinese radars for Block 2 JF-17s.



19. Advanced composites have been tested for use on the Block 2 JF-17s. Present JF-17s also use some composites. J-10B/FC-20 is designed from inception from new advanced composites. FC-20s in PAF service will form the top tier in the PAF (above the F-16 Block 52+).



20. PAF denied any collaboration in Chinese 5th generation fighter program as this is a capability they are not familiar with. PAF senior officials stated that:

 

[abaseen99]

Some Additional Comments on the FC-1 Debate
This is in reference to the running debate between SOC and myself, as continued from my last post and the following running commentary at keypublishing:

Relevant Post 1
Relevant Post 2



The range for the present Chinese radar is very likely to be more than 100 kms; considering that the PAF chief was comparing with PAF F-16s. The PAFhttp://www.grandestrategy.com/2007/11/some-additional-comments-on-fc-1-debate.html F-16s underwent OCU which increased their range and made it close to MLU (see this)

"The Pakistan Air Force currently has the Block 15 F-16A/B model in operation, which has an upgraded APG-66 radar that brings it close to the MLU (Mid-life Update) radar technology. The main advantage is the ability to use the AIM-7 Sparrow and AIM-120 AMRAAM missiles if they were ever to be released to the PAF. Furthermore, the radar is capable of sorting out tight formations of aircraft and has a 15%-20% range increase over previous models. All the earlier F-16s were brought up to OCU standards and have received the Falcon UP structural modification package."

Consider this bit of information, and also that the APG-66 later modification values are against 1m^2 targets which will be further increased against a significantly greater RCS for the MKI.

Now consider statements made by the PAF Chief about the KLJ-7: is *much better* than their APGs (and these are the upgraded OCU APGs).

Secondly if you visit SOC's old post on FC-1 and see the exchange of comments, one poster pointed out that KLJ-7 beat the Grifo- S and PAF did not lowered their requirements (this includes a link that PAF did not lower it's requirement, and on that is by none other than Richard Fischer ). SOC in fact commented that it is a very potent radar looking at some mentioned features.

Clearly, the KLJ-7 was chosen over this "very potent radar" and clearly the PAF Chief mentions that the KLJ-7 is "much better" than the present APGs.


One would also want to ask what is the detection range by JET modulation when intakes are hidden and treated with RAM. Why does one poster think it is more important and potent than detection by using returns from the airframe when clearly returns from airframe of a non-stealthy aircraft will be in abundance.

Another assertion made is that the MKI has phased array and JF-17 has Pulse doppler and MKI can avoid JF-17 lock by using doppler notch where as MKI will have no problems with locking on as it's radar is not PD.

This is what is common knowledge at various forums:
1)Doppler notch has been known since time ancient and tactics against Doppler notch were known by USAF even back in Vietnam Era.
2) According to one of the viper pilots at the F-16 forum, they have way more modes on their radars and just by switching to different mode of detection and maneuvering your aircraft so that there is no 90 degrees between both aircrafts this dopler notch could be taken care of.
3)Another aviator said "no modern AI radar is worth it's salt if it can't resist doppler notch"

All of the above should be on F-16 forums if you search "doppler notch"

Here is a link to the F-16.net dicussion regarding beaming/doppler notch tactic to break lock of a pulse doppler radar.http://www.grandestrategy.com/2007/11/some-additional-comments-on-fc-1-debate.html

 

[abaseen99]

 

[MastanKhan]

Eagle Hannan Zhuhai
Eagle Hannan’s Goldmine from Zhuhai





The poster on Pakdef known as Eagle Hannan is a Pakistani engineer who works in Nanjing, China. He speaks both Urdu and Chinese fluently. He is a serious military aviation enthusiast. The city he comes from in China, Nanjing, is also the home of two of the J-10 pilots from the PLAAF that participated in the Zhuhai Air Show, 2010. He stayed at the same hotel as the PAF pilots and had many conversations with them as well as the PLAAF pilots. . Hannan attended all three public holidays and spent all three days with pilots and senior officers. Hannan has managed to collect a large amount of information and media and these have been cleared by senior personnel from the PAF for public release.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------





Hannan describes the aerobatics display of the JF-17 as brilliant. The JF-17 flew twice every day of the air show. He notes that the weather conditions were very bad and hard to take videos in. He said that the J-10s did not perform particularly well. Hannan comments that in 14 minutes of display there was a single performance of 360 and three half-hearted loops. He observes that the rest of the displays by the J-10 were formation flights. He notes that one of the Sherdil pilots comments about the J-10 pilots in Punjabi that the old men of China cannot fly their own planes.



In comparison, the JF-17s did much better. Hannan describes the Chinese crowd as going “wild” with the Thunder’s repeated tight turns, without a single one off-target from the venue.



In his conversations with the PAF, he has found out the following:



1. JF-17s will not have CFTs (Conformal Fuel Tanks).



2. The present batch of JF-17s has certain non-Chinese subsystems.



3. Air to Air missile tests for both WVR and BVR are complete.



4. PAF is impressed with the performance of SD-10s and confirms that the missile is comparable to the AMRAAM-Cs.



5. An improved SD-10s, designated here as SD-10Bs with improved range, seeker, new motor and better seeker has been tested in China on the FC-1. These missiles are marginally lighter than the first generation and are in the same standard as the best Western BVR AAMs.



The weight of the SD-10Bs still remains slightly greater than the AMRAAM Cs but this is not an issue anymore because the performance is equal or superior. The missiles displayed in Zhuhai were not the new generation SD-10Bs but the earlier model.



PAF order for the SD-10Bs will be fulfilled before PLAAF. Previous models will be upgraded to the new SD-10B standard. [Author’s note: this may suggest that PAF have provided critical input for the SD-10Bs]



6. PAF will standardize to this SD-10Bs. First 50 will have PL-9Cs as standard WVR missiles.



7. A new radar will possibly be used in the Block II JF-17s and the first block will be upgraded. These are likely to be AESA radars with a swash-plate, similar to the Gripen NG.



8. JF-17 radars are designed to be fully multirole.



9. Various new guided munitions are being tested in China. These include SDBs (Small Diameter Bombs) ideal for the light fighter class.



10. PAF’s second squadron of JF-17s is almost ready and flight trials are earmarked for early next year.



11. China is confirmed (yet again and without any doubt whatsoever) to buy the FC-1s. Consequently, production is being expanded in Pakistan’s production facilities, Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC), to meet the demand. These facilities are located in Kamra.



12. Close cooperation on the J-10B is taking place. The level of cooperation has been significantly expanded since 2009. The size of the cooperation is described as literally a small city-like facility to accommodate PAF and Pakistani civilian engineers. Hannan confirmed that civilian engineers from PAC are also part of the cooperation in China.



13. The J-10B will have Chinese radar and western subsystems will allow it to be integrated with Erieye and Chinese AWACS. This is not an assumption and Eagle Hannan, who is a telecom engineer himself, confirms that this is not a technical problem and reconfirms from PAF. There is no problem as long as the protocol messages and handshake procedures are known. He found out that PAF has a solution in terms of the middleware.



14. The middleware will not only be via a C4I but also direct communication middleware. Some of these are being developed in-house and some are being imported.



15. Whether JF-17s can data link with Erieye has not been confirmed due to diplomatic/political reasons. However, Hannan notes that from his discussions, it is implicitly obvious that they definitely can.



16. IFR (In-Flight Refueling) will be installed in later batches. These will be fixed IFRs and not retractable. [Author’s note: radar signature and aerodynamics penalty paid for simplicity of construction, cost and maintenance]. The JF-17s were designed from the ground-up to have IFRs installed.



17. Next block of JF-17s will have IRST (Infra-Red Search & Track) similar to those installed on the J-10B.



18. Pakistani ALCM Raad and H2/H4 ASM will be integrated and was a major reason why Pakistan has chosen to go with Chinese radars for Block 2 JF-17s.



19. Advanced composites have been tested for use on the Block 2 JF-17s. Present JF-17s also use some composites. J-10B/FC-20 is designed from inception from new advanced composites. FC-20s in PAF service will form the top tier in the PAF (above the F-16 Block 52+).



20. PAF denied any collaboration in Chinese 5th generation fighter program as this is a capability they are not familiar with. PAF senior officials stated that:

Hello gentlemen,

I am going to entertain this news with some skepticism----the news is all wonderful---that is well and good----look at all the euphoria that it has created---oaky---that is fine too.

But this news does not change the game in its immediate viccinity of time and latitude.

There has to be something material that has to substantiate this claim----even news from Jane's may not be worthy either---Jane's needs to boost up its sales at this time---so---just before christmas time---add a little spice here---increase a little performance there---and wallah----there are another 10 thousand sales----.

Paf has been talking about its prowess and capability for awhile now---they have to show some real stuff---they have build up excitement and they have to deliver now---.

Whatever they are talking about---and if there is any truth in it---will only come out in at least 2 to 3 years time---. With a total of 50 opetrational JF 17's----they will just barely begin to scratch the surface.

As the previous news about the the first batch of JF 17 went---they were supposedly for ground attack roles---.

Now it is coming up like more of an air superiority fighter---I don't begrudge my countrymen on that---what I am worried about is my indian colleagues---. All this cartwheeling must have given them a severe case of mental cramps and headaches.

Eaglehannan is now a worldwide household name---then you have Jane's filling in the blanks to substantiate the story about the strengths of the SD 10's---.

I personally believe that Mr Eaglehannan should not have disclosed what he did---I beliebe that it would hurt us more than it would help us---being fore warned---Mr Hannan has given the enemy more time to prepare----and that does not help our cause.

I would rather have had it disclosed with a picture of a flying in service JF 17 integrated with the right radar and SD 10 mounted on its wings---.

That picture of an operational JF 17 with the SD 10 would have caused a real rumble in the world of fighter aircraft.

So---bottomline----other than to make brownie points---this news must never have been disclosed. PROMISE LESS---DELIVER MORE.

By giving india---a two years ahead of time warning---in his innocence, Mr Hannan has helped us cut our own feet---.

I am not a member at pak def dot info----if anyone has dual membership and they can post it to that website for eagle hannan to read---I would appreciate that.

 

[Dazzler]

There is nothing wrong with the info if you ask me. One instance, some were complaining JFT to be on the conservative side and less capable, needs a lot of work on all departments, less advanced and what not. Now, all of a sudden as the info emerged it became threatening to the county's interest? I have seen Eagle Hannan's post on many forums for many years now and to me, he is sensible enough to understand what should be mentioned on open forums and what not as long as some one leak the blue prints of JFT.

 

[BATMAN]

MK. as you mention, consider it Christmas season.
I'm sure much more is still hidden in the closet.
Our enemy does not have very many options to turn the tables.
In Indo-Pak conflict foreign made jets rarely fits while JFT is custom made for Indo-Pak scenario starting with defensive approach and than moving into multi role.

 

[Bossman]

Hello gentlemen,

I am going to entertain this news with some skepticism----the news is all wonderful---that is well and good----look at all the euphoria that it has created---oaky---that is fine too.

But this news does not change the game in its immediate viccinity of time and latitude.

There has to be something material that has to substantiate this claim----even news from Jane's may not be worthy either---Jane's needs to boost up its sales at this time---so---just before christmas time---add a little spice here---increase a little performance there---and wallah----there are another 10 thousand sales----.

Paf has been talking about its prowess and capability for awhile now---they have to show some real stuff---they have build up excitement and they have to deliver now---.

Whatever they are talking about---and if there is any truth in it---will only come out in at least 2 to 3 years time---. With a total of 50 opetrational JF 17's----they will just barely begin to scratch the surface.

As the previous news about the the first batch of JF 17 went---they were supposedly for ground attack roles---.

Now it is coming up like more of an air superiority fighter---I don't begrudge my countrymen on that---what I am worried about is my indian colleagues---. All this cartwheeling must have given them a severe case of mental cramps and headaches.

Eaglehannan is now a worldwide household name---then you have Jane's filling in the blanks to substantiate the story about the strengths of the SD 10's---.

I personally believe that Mr Eaglehannan should not have disclosed what he did---I beliebe that it would hurt us more than it would help us---being fore warned---Mr Hannan has given the enemy more time to prepare----and that does not help our cause.

I would rather have had it disclosed with a picture of a flying in service JF 17 integrated with the right radar and SD 10 mounted on its wings---.

That picture of an operational JF 17 with the SD 10 would have caused a real rumble in the world of fighter aircraft.

So---bottomline----other than to make brownie points---this news must never have been disclosed. PROMISE LESS---DELIVER MORE.

By giving india---a two years ahead of time warning---in his innocence, Mr Hannan has helped us cut our own feet---.

I am not a member at pak def dot info----if anyone has dual membership and they can post it to that website for eagle hannan to read---I would appreciate that.

There is nothing in the news that Eagle Hannan has quoted which was not already known in the public domain. The PAF officer he spoke to only shared information with him he was authorised to share with the public. I am sure Indians know much more about the JF17 than what is in Eagle Hannan's post. A case in point. Six countries are supposed to be interested in the JF-17 and I am sure detailed technical information about the plane has been shared with them. I would not be surprised if such information ends up with Indian intelligence services. PAF is also not that naive about such risks. On the other hand, I am sure people in PAF have gotten their hands on SU30MKI flight Manuals.

On the other hand Eagle Hannan's post seems to have made you a fan of JF17 and its BVR capability. I recall an exchange with you not many months ago in which you stated that SD-10 is a medium range AAM and was not yet certified.

 

[Donatello]

Eagle Hannan Zhuhai
Eagle Hannan’s Goldmine from Zhuhai





The poster on Pakdef known as Eagle Hannan is a Pakistani engineer who works in Nanjing, China. He speaks both Urdu and Chinese fluently. He is a serious military aviation enthusiast. The city he comes from in China, Nanjing, is also the home of two of the J-10 pilots from the PLAAF that participated in the Zhuhai Air Show, 2010. He stayed at the same hotel as the PAF pilots and had many conversations with them as well as the PLAAF pilots. . Hannan attended all three public holidays and spent all three days with pilots and senior officers. Hannan has managed to collect a large amount of information and media and these have been cleared by senior personnel from the PAF for public release.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------





Hannan describes the aerobatics display of the JF-17 as brilliant. The JF-17 flew twice every day of the air show. He notes that the weather conditions were very bad and hard to take videos in. He said that the J-10s did not perform particularly well. Hannan comments that in 14 minutes of display there was a single performance of 360 and three half-hearted loops. He observes that the rest of the displays by the J-10 were formation flights. He notes that one of the Sherdil pilots comments about the J-10 pilots in Punjabi that the old men of China cannot fly their own planes.



In comparison, the JF-17s did much better. Hannan describes the Chinese crowd as going “wild” with the Thunder’s repeated tight turns, without a single one off-target from the venue.



In his conversations with the PAF, he has found out the following:



1. JF-17s will not have CFTs (Conformal Fuel Tanks).



2. The present batch of JF-17s has certain non-Chinese subsystems.



3. Air to Air missile tests for both WVR and BVR are complete.



4. PAF is impressed with the performance of SD-10s and confirms that the missile is comparable to the AMRAAM-Cs.



5. An improved SD-10s, designated here as SD-10Bs with improved range, seeker, new motor and better seeker has been tested in China on the FC-1. These missiles are marginally lighter than the first generation and are in the same standard as the best Western BVR AAMs.



The weight of the SD-10Bs still remains slightly greater than the AMRAAM Cs but this is not an issue anymore because the performance is equal or superior. The missiles displayed in Zhuhai were not the new generation SD-10Bs but the earlier model.



PAF order for the SD-10Bs will be fulfilled before PLAAF. Previous models will be upgraded to the new SD-10B standard. [Author’s note: this may suggest that PAF have provided critical input for the SD-10Bs]



6. PAF will standardize to this SD-10Bs. First 50 will have PL-9Cs as standard WVR missiles.



7. A new radar will possibly be used in the Block II JF-17s and the first block will be upgraded. These are likely to be AESA radars with a swash-plate, similar to the Gripen NG.



8. JF-17 radars are designed to be fully multirole.



9. Various new guided munitions are being tested in China. These include SDBs (Small Diameter Bombs) ideal for the light fighter class.



10. PAF’s second squadron of JF-17s is almost ready and flight trials are earmarked for early next year.



11. China is confirmed (yet again and without any doubt whatsoever) to buy the FC-1s. Consequently, production is being expanded in Pakistan’s production facilities, Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC), to meet the demand. These facilities are located in Kamra.



12. Close cooperation on the J-10B is taking place. The level of cooperation has been significantly expanded since 2009. The size of the cooperation is described as literally a small city-like facility to accommodate PAF and Pakistani civilian engineers. Hannan confirmed that civilian engineers from PAC are also part of the cooperation in China.



13. The J-10B will have Chinese radar and western subsystems will allow it to be integrated with Erieye and Chinese AWACS. This is not an assumption and Eagle Hannan, who is a telecom engineer himself, confirms that this is not a technical problem and reconfirms from PAF. There is no problem as long as the protocol messages and handshake procedures are known. He found out that PAF has a solution in terms of the middleware.



14. The middleware will not only be via a C4I but also direct communication middleware. Some of these are being developed in-house and some are being imported.



15. Whether JF-17s can data link with Erieye has not been confirmed due to diplomatic/political reasons. However, Hannan notes that from his discussions, it is implicitly obvious that they definitely can.



16. IFR (In-Flight Refueling) will be installed in later batches. These will be fixed IFRs and not retractable. [Author’s note: radar signature and aerodynamics penalty paid for simplicity of construction, cost and maintenance]. The JF-17s were designed from the ground-up to have IFRs installed.



17. Next block of JF-17s will have IRST (Infra-Red Search & Track) similar to those installed on the J-10B.



18. Pakistani ALCM Raad and H2/H4 ASM will be integrated and was a major reason why Pakistan has chosen to go with Chinese radars for Block 2 JF-17s.



19. Advanced composites have been tested for use on the Block 2 JF-17s. Present JF-17s also use some composites. J-10B/FC-20 is designed from inception from new advanced composites. FC-20s in PAF service will form the top tier in the PAF (above the F-16 Block 52+).



20. PAF denied any collaboration in Chinese 5th generation fighter program as this is a capability they are not familiar with. PAF senior officials stated that:

Stated what?

Please complete the last line...number 20.

 

[MastanKhan]

On the other hand Eagle Hannan's post seems to have made you a fan of JF17 and its BVR capability. I recall an exchange with you not many months ago in which you stated that SD-10 is a medium range AAM and was not yet certified.

Sir,

Welcome back to the discussion. I am not a spring chicken that a little excitement would get me jumping up and down.

Over the last 40 years, I have heard enough lies from PAF---so---unless and untill I see the proof in person authenticated---it ain't going to change anything.

I believe that all this news is hogwash---the paf got screwed in the french deal---. Then instead of an air superiority fighter, they had to end up with a ground strike fighter due to the electronics package---. Instaed of the french radar, they had to settle for the chinese.

Now---in the sd 10 china does have something---but it is not what it is made upto be. It is still a medium range missile---and it is yet to become operational---.

Chinese radar and the sd 10 were the last choice of the Paf---now suddenly they have inherited gold balz---.

Now---something being out on the rumour mill is something else---but when something comes right out of the horses mouth---then the impact is totally different.

Son---you still trying to de-grade me and insult me with every oppurtunity that you get---and I don't blame you for that---that is your cultural upbringing. It is a habbit of yours to belittle me---that is okay----if you could at least take the oppurtunity to learn something out of it.

You see---normal leaks---a tidbit here---a morsel there---does not make such a big furor---public is not involved---politicians keep to themseleves---everybody is happy going about with their daily live---and then suddenly this interview pops out of the blue---.

It is legitimate---the environment is a hotel---maybe a lounge---interviewer is an engineer---a bi lingual---the interviewee---a paf officer---comfortable setting---a mega event for the JF 17---a bridegroom being presented in its motherland for the very first time---and some credible information leaks out---sh-it happens.

Bottomline----that is how I look at it---if you think it is different---I am not stopping you----but don't impose your ignorance on me---

And by the way---get out of this desi mindset---of intentionally insulting people that you don't agree with---and stop seeking pleasure in puting others down.

 

[ANG]

Hi, regardless of whether the PAF got screwed in the French deal, could they have even afforded it? They would be paying $15M per plane, and given Pakistan's dire economic situation, I highly doubt they could have coughed up that much money.

Moreover, educate me here. Is the SD-10 not longer ranged than the MICA and also has a half decent performance? Also is a Chinsese AESA radar not a better option than the RC400 radar (in the French deal)? Thanks!