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JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 4]

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@Darky, JF-17 is comparable to a propeller driven aircraft and it was designed to take on propeller driven aircraft.

I think that is enough to satisfy you guys.

Now can you plz stop derailing the thread by bringing in something which has been talked about many many times.

Another thing to prove JF-17 is a loser is that, the third squadron is not being raised which was due six months ago as PAF is more satisfied with Mirage III than JF-17. And the crash of JF-17 on it's testing mission also proves it to be a huge failure and that a P-38 can easily shoot down the JF-17 Blunder.
 
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Another thing to prove JF-17 is a loser is that, the third squadron is not being raised which was due six months ago as PAF is more satisfied with Mirage III than JF-17. And the crash of JF-17 on it's testing mission also proves it to be a huge failure and that a P-38 can easily shoot down the JF-17 Blunder.

yaar aur buss karoo, kitni class loooo gae JF-17 ki, Indians kae liyea bhi kuch chooor do :)
 
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this is an 6-yr old article which states Russia's position on this subject.

Date Posted: 01-Nov-2006

JANE'S DEFENCE INDUSTRY - DECEMBER 01, 2006

Russia decides to supply Pakistan with fighter-aircraft engines

By Robert Karniol, Zuhai Air Show, China. Additional reporting by Ben Vogel, Janes.com Editor

PAKISTAN'S JF-17 light multirole fighter aircraft will be powered by Russian Klimov RD-93 engines - a substantial change in position for Russia which had previously resisted giving Pakistan access to the engine.

Directly contradicting an earlier Russian position, a senior Chinese aerospace official has for the first time publicly confirmed that the Sino-Pakistani JF-17 (FC-1) under development will be powered by the Russian engine. The new position was supported by Russian officials.

"Right now we are using the RD-93 [in prototypes] and it's Klimov who will do the series production [of the engine]. The engine will be exported to Pakistan," said Li Pei, development director at China's Chengdhu Aircraft Industry Group, which is leading the programme and also involved the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex.

Klimov mentioned that the FC-1, China's version of the jointly developed aircraft, is still undergoing "performance flight tests".

Russian diplomatic and industry officials had previously stated without qualification that the RD-93 powering the FC-1 will not be provided to Islamabad either directly or through re-export. Klimov had reiterated this position only a day before Li's statement.

Moscow is thought to have hesitated over any deal involving provision of its military products to Pakistan because of concerns centred on its long-standing defence relationship with rival India.

Klimov, in particular, is involved in a Russian bid to supply New Delhi with 126 MiG-29 fighters.

Li reversed this view of the JF-17 programme when questioned by Jane's at a press briefing organised by Klimov during the China Air Show 2006. He was flanked on the podium by senior officials from both Klimov and the Russian arms exporter Rosoboronexport.

"If we don't sell [Pakistan the RD-93 engines] then someone else will. It's just a reality," said Klimov Director General Alexander Vatagin, in a follow-up comment. Oleg Novikov, a senior official with Rosoborenexport, reinforced the change in position over export of the engine.

"The process to [arrange the provision to Pakistan of the RD-93] is on-going," he explained.

"The export licence will be granted provided it doesn't contravene the export laws of Russia or China."

The Pakistan Air Force earlier this year told Jane's that it had received firm assurances from China that the RD-93 issue will not prove a problem despite repeated Russian statements to the contrary.
 
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start a new thread..
This one has exausted......
 
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This thread has gone past its useful life. I would recomend to close all Thunder related threads and discussions forthe time being. Start a new thread when something solid comes out about block II.
 
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Did you just post a quote saying

You are ok the Russians letting the Luthwaffe modify the engines but not the Chinese? ... .... In fact at Farnborough 2010 the Chinese were offering to help the Russia on how to improves their engines although I believe it is the AL-31FN that was being discussed

Read my full post.

Why would the Chinese modify RD-93 and not sell their WS-13.
Besides that as the members have been saying that the engine is coming directly from Russia.. hence negating the possibility.

To add on that I don't think any AF would be so willing to decrease the MTBO and life of their engine when its being supplied from 1000s of kilometer by air and from a foreign manufacturer... costing a lot of $$.
Such a thing isn't possible until there's an overhaul and repair facility in Pakistan itself.
 
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Now can you plz stop derailing the thread by bringing in something which has been talked about many many times.

It just started off and it goes by the flow.
never mind I won't post anymore about RD-33/93.. Guess its enough.
 
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Why would the Chinese modify RD-93 and not sell their WS-13.
For the same reason that the K-8s in the PAF are not flying with a Chinese engine. Only last year was the WS-13 being tested on an FC-1 when the PAF had JF-17s operational.

Besides that as the members have been saying that the engine is coming directly from Russia.. hence negating the possibility.
It does not. All press releases have been that RD-93s have been exported to China and China has been allowed to re-export. SIPRI does have Pakistan receiving RD-93s but I suspect China has to declare the end user (Pakistan), hence SIPRI reports that the engines were exported to Pakistan.

Even that, with the way PAF is very much part of FC-1, nothing stops China transferring the know-how to over-clock the engines. I.e. PAF might be over-clocking the engines too on their own.

To add on that I don't think any AF would be so willing to decrease the MTBO and life of their engine when its being supplied from 1000s of kilometer by air and from a foreign manufacturer... costing a lot of $$.
How many MiG-25 operators are there outside Russia? ... ... and you are saying they don't run their fighters on AB when necessary because it ruins the engines?

For all training and peacetime operations the JFTs don't necessarily have to run at the over-clocked setting. But in a war, if over-clockit is going to with the war, than every RD-93 will be overclocked.

I am not saying they are over-clocking, but I see it as very possible and making all the sense.
 
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Read my full post.

Why would the Chinese modify RD-93 and not sell their WS-13.
Besides that as the members have been saying that the engine is coming directly from Russia.. hence negating the possibility.

To add on that I don't think any AF would be so willing to decrease the MTBO and life of their engine when its being supplied from 1000s of kilometer by air and from a foreign manufacturer... costing a lot of $$.
Such a thing isn't possible until there's an overhaul and repair facility in Pakistan itself.

its not fully reliable. how many times it should be repeated here!
 
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For the same reason that the K-8s in the PAF are not flying with a Chinese engine. Only last year was the WS-13 being tested on an FC-1 when the PAF had JF-17s operational.

Either ways Its going to affect the Chinese market.
Today China wants to field its own fighter planes for export which are in competition with Russian planes and making inroads in the traditional Russian market.
At 1st the Russians won't be comfortable with Chinese opening up their engine as they have been notorious for RE jobs.
2ndly the Chinese would send a wrong message promoting the Russian engine instead of their own... affecting its turbo-fan industry.

It does not. All press releases have been that RD-93s have been exported to China and China has been allowed to re-export. SIPRI does have Pakistan receiving RD-93s but I suspect China has to declare the end user (Pakistan), hence SIPRI reports that the engines were exported to Pakistan.

That only increases the cost of the engine for PAF... and unnecessary delay... aswell as dependence on Middle man.

Even that, with the way PAF is very much part of FC-1, nothing stops China transferring the know-how to over-clock the engines. I.e. PAF might be over-clocking the engines too on their own.

As stated above... the obvious reasons... besides overclocking or underclocking affects the performance of engine accordingly.
And to add on that.. PAF playing with the new plane and new engine so early might bring out unwanted results... Don't compare PAF with Germans here.

How many MiG-25 operators are there outside Russia? ... ... and you are saying they don't run their fighters on AB when necessary because it ruins the engines?

Yes they avoid going to the red mark on their meter as to save their plane during peace time.
When life and death situation arises they certainly do that.. however that usually happens in case of war.

For all training and peacetime operations the JFTs don't necessarily have to run at the over-clocked setting. But in a war, if over-clockit is going to with the war, than every RD-93 will be overclocked.

But you have already configured the engine in this case.
In war time however dependence on middle-man and import/overhauls of engines for the main combat aircraft at regular intervals would affect the performance of PAF.

I am not saying they are over-clocking, but I see it as very possible and making all the sense.

Offcourse.

However there are both advantages and disadvantages while doing such things... and it doesn't go right always.

its not fully reliable. how many times it should be repeated here!

I was saying in context of future scenario... 2-3 years and beyond when JF-17 becomes main/front line fighter aircraft for PAF.. and Chinese starting to look for the market for its WS-13.

Today 30-40 planes are not much of an issue... even flying hours would be less due to absence of weaponry like BVR and Targetting pods etc... not much combat load.
 
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We are slowly agreeing = GOOD.

We have a Russian executive telling the press that “it does not make sense to refuse either China or Pakistan technologies they can get elsewhere.” If the RD-93 was not made available, someone else engine was, or the WS-13 you have been given higher urgency.

It could send the “wrong message” but that is exactly what the Chinese are doing. China have been saying they want to offer customers options and choices. See the 3 engines available and on offer for the K-8. The radar choices and missile options on the F-7s. The two radars on offer for the FC-1. Even their APC and tanks are coming with German and Russian engines.

Running your engine on afterburner reduces life, but air forces do it when necessary. Cost/Benefit analysis. I agree it will reduce life, but the PAF, if over-clocking makes the JF-17 win battles, then they will over-clock it. It will fight and kill the enemy and come to back to base with a ruined engine but it has not only survived, but would have successfully defended the country. Engine life or spares availability becomes secondary. What engine life is there to conserve when you are a few seconds away from someone putting a missile into your exhaust?

Please check SIPRI data: SD-10 missiles and WMD-7 EO pods were delivered to the PAF. By the end of 2010, 25 x SD-10 and 22 x WMD-7s had been delivered. Please note that each JFT is coming with 4 x SD-10 and a WMD-7 of its own. i.e. they are not sharing. Note that guided weaponry (LS-6 and C-802) have been delivered too for the JF-17.
 
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shall be there any good news related to jf-17 on the defence day ?
 
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nothing new has come out this year i wonder why they are delaying the block 2 version?
Not even burrak and AK-2
FC-20 also .......Just nothing new
 
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[--Leo--];3373448 said:
nothing new has come out this year i wonder why they are delaying the block 2 version?
Not even burrak and AK-2
FC-20 also .......Just nothing new

PAF and PA does not deploy or procure systems for the benefit of kids lurking on military forums. They have their own schedule based on their threat perception and needs
 
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