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JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 4]

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i dont think anyone has posted it

i posted it in info pool :)

So uhh, when's JF-17 BLK 2 coming out? Last time i visited this thread everyone was jumping up and down at the news that JF-17 BLK 2 will be revealed in 2012.

Block-2 WILL BE revealed in 2012, Block 1 production is likely to be completed by July or August 2012 at best, as per the plan.
 
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So uhh, when's JF-17 BLK 2 coming out? Last time i visited this thread everyone was jumping up and down at the news that JF-17 BLK 2 will be revealed in 2012.

If you listen closely enough Chief Designer. During the speech in Dubai Airshow, they explained the third quarter of 2012 which previously said first quarter of 2012. It is now changing to third quarter in 2012. The JF-17 Block 2 production will start on September to November this year.

The chief designer of JF17 J10B J10AS J20.YANGWEI introduce the PAK-china JF17 project at dubai - YouTube

It is not going to be big difference from Block 1 in my perspective. Just extra equipments and air-refueling. The first F-16 (Blk 15) upgraded to Blk 30. This JF-17 BLK 1 (Blk 30) will upgrade to Blk 40 something except engines issues.
 
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i posted it in info pool :)



Block-2 WILL BE revealed in 2012, Block 1 production is likely to be completed by July or August 2012 at best, as per the plan.
Hi Nabil..
Can you please find out if PAF is participating in any Airshows this year?
RIAT has officially invited PAF but not received any response yet...and same goes for Farnborough.
In 2010 i wasn't a member of this forum and had no idea if PAF will be there,and it was a pleasant surprise when my son spotted a Little Pakistani Flag on the tail of a plane and almost dragged me in that direction..It was a pleasant surprise for me to see Pakistani crews and PAF planes at the airshow when i wasn't expecting any...My kids are born in UK and never been to Pakistan.I was so proud to introduce them to PAF airmen and Pilots and show them a Pakistani Fighter jet.The experience improved the perception of Pakistan in their little minds.
 
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Block 2 follows the philosophy, "you do not fix what is not broken". Blk 1 is leaps and bounds better than any aircraft PAF has at the moment in every term except the blk 52+, which itself, is better than most fighters in the world. Currently, i classify the blk 1 on par with F-16 blk 40/42, in terms of overall weapon, avionics, radar, EW capability (except engine and payload offcourse). Block 2 adds few other capabilities, improves overall range with IFR so Block 52's range advantage is, relatively negated here. Other capabilities are yet to be found by us but there are quite a few improvements in it. My source is tightly lipped this time. :)
 
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Block 2 follows the philosophy, "you do not fix what is not broken". Blk 1 is leaps and bounds better than any aircraft PAF has at the moment in every term except the blk 52+, which itself, is better than most fighters in the world. Currently, i classify the blk 1 on par with F-16 blk 40/42, in terms of overall weapon, avionics, radar, EW capability (except engine and payload offcourse). Block 2 adds few other capabilities, improves overall range with IFR so Block 52's range advantage is, relatively negated here. Other capabilities are yet to be found by us but there are quite a few improvements in it. My source is tightly lipped this time. :)

Mate, is the Block2 going to incorporate a Chinese engine or are we still stuck with the Russian RD-93 (I think) ? Additionally when we've created the Block2 and have started incorporating them into the PAF, are the previous Block1s going to receive sort of an MLU to be brought to Block2 standard or are the going to remain in their original configuration ?
 
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Are the BLK 2's going to incorporate AESA's? Which variants will get the IRST's?
 
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Are the BLK 2's going to incorporate AESA's? Which variants will get the IRST's?

Radar is still a mystery, i cant say anything whether it has advanced KLJ-xx or an AESA. However, AESA can be readily integrated even in the block 1 aircraft IF need arises so whether PAF has this need in block 2 or not, only time will tell. Also, AESA will put it ahead of even the blk 52s!
 
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In my opinion PAF has a strategy similar to the Swedish Air force.
At the end of Russo-Finnish war the swedes calculated that if Soviets attack Sweden,there will be no way for the swedes to stop them...They devised strategy to retreat and let the Soviets over run Sweden in case of an attack and then launch Resistance from scattered locations...That was the basis of Grippen design , a small plane able to take off and land on short runways and requiring minimal maintenance....
If you go to Sweden you will notice long stretches of Motorways which have no lamp posts or street lights..intended for landing planes..and small units scattered across Sweden specially the wild north who can emerge out of the forest on short notice to refuel and arm a Grippen landed on a road.
Large planes including J-11 will need long runways and will be rendered useless if runways are destroyed which will be the situation Pakistan will find if attacked by a Much larger Air force.
Likewise..the maintenance? Does J-11 need little maintenance and can be rearmed and refueled on roadside?

Did you notice PAF has been practicing takeoff and landing on motorways?

No I did not notice PAF taking off or landing on motorways since I have been living in States for last 27 years. Again if I differ with you then this debate will keep on going for ever. I said what I wanted to say and I strongly believe in it. I hope JFT will become Grippen one day at least that way we would have some credible deterrence. Take care
 
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Mate, is the Block2 going to incorporate a Chinese engine or are we still stuck with the Russian RD-93 (I think) ? Additionally when we've created the Block2 and have started incorporating them into the PAF, are the previous Block1s going to receive sort of an MLU to be brought to Block2 standard or are the going to remain in their original configuration ?

Mate, i fail to understand your problem with RD-93 when PAF has no issue with it sofar? In fact, the quick response time and relatively high thrust of this engine is why PAF wants to retain it. Also, it is maintenance friendly and rugged performer with efficient DEEC control for maintainability after each sortie.

MLU is an essential part for any aircraft's life, JFT is no exception here. All blk 1 will be brought to standard fleet upgrade capability when needed, but i believe there is little need for an upgrade when the block 2 is inducted. Maybe after block 3? Even USAF operates older blocks of F-16s and F-15s as of today. It all depends upon requirements of the PAF.
 
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Mate, i fail to understand your problem with RD-93 when PAF has no issue with it sofar? In fact, the quick response time and relatively high thrust of this engine is why PAF wants to retain it. Also, it is maintenance friendly and rugged performer with efficient DEEC control for maintainability after each sortie.

MLU is an essential part for any aircraft's life, JFT is no exception here. All blk 1 will be brought to standard fleet upgrade capability when needed, but i believe there is little need for an upgrade when the block 2 is inducted. Maybe after block 3? Even USAF operates older blocks of F-16s and F-15s as of today. It all depends upon requirements of the PAF.

Nabil

And any one else whoever can answer my simple question. What do you all mean by the PAF requirement? The requirement in my opinion is would the damn thing (what ever the subject matter is) be able to do the job. In my opinion our PAF requirement today and in the future would JFT be able to defend against whatever will be thrown at us from eastern side?

Also there was a rumor floating around way back some time that Pakistan and China has signed a MOU for developing an stealth version of JFT. What is your take on it? And please don't mind my language.
 
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Mate, i fail to understand your problem with RD-93 when PAF has no issue with it sofar? In fact, the quick response time and relatively high thrust of this engine is why PAF wants to retain it. Also, it is maintenance friendly and rugged performer with efficient DEEC control for maintainability after each sortie.

MLU is an essential part for any aircraft's life, JFT is no exception here. All blk 1 will be brought to standard fleet upgrade capability when needed, but i believe there is little need for an upgrade when the block 2 is inducted. Maybe after block 3? Even USAF operates older blocks of F-16s and F-15s as of today. It all depends upon requirements of the PAF.

Mate, I'm just not to wild about the RD-93 seeing that Russia, from what I've heard from other posters, did block its sales for the a short while before finally allowing it...who knows the Indian Lobby might not be so unlucky the next time ! So I'm holding out for the WS-13 and possibly a better version of the same to power our birds...! We could even have an outsiders chance of a TOT in case of the WS-13...! Which would in turn be a massive learning experience for our engineers in the PAF.....!
 
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Mate, I'm just not to wild about the RD-93 seeing that Russia, from what I've heard from other posters, did block its sales for the a short while before finally allowing it...who knows the Indian Lobby might not be so unlucky the next time ! So I'm holding out for the WS-13 and possibly a better version of the same to power our birds...! We could even have an outsiders chance of a TOT in case of the WS-13...! Which would in turn be a massive learning experience for our engineers in the PAF.....!

WS-13 IS the future engine for JFT regardless whether Russia is willing with RD-93 or not. The engine sale blocking was never done by Russia from the start rather it was just media hype and mostly, false reporting.

Nabil

And any one else whoever can answer my simple question. What do you all mean by the PAF requirement? The requirement in my opinion is would the damn thing (what ever the subject matter is) be able to do the job. In my opinion our PAF requirement today and in the future would JFT be able to defend against whatever will be thrown at us from eastern side?

Also there was a rumor floating around way back some time that Pakistan and China has signed a MOU for developing an stealth version of JFT. What is your take on it? And please don't mind my language.


Do i have to repeat the whole story for your sake again? Go through archives and you will know why and how this fighter was developed and what requirements it DOES fulfil. Amazing how we tend to believe we know it all instead of the actual developers of the said system! Also, our neighbour is NOT US with all the might and influence in the world, and is also having her share of difficulties in maintaining an edge in air warfare.
 
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WS-13 IS the future engine for JFT regardless whether Russia is willing with RD-93 or not. The engine sale blocking was never done by Russia from the start rather it was just media hype and mostly, false reporting.




Do i have to repeat the whole story for your sake again? Go through archives and you will know why and how this fighter was developed and what requirements it DOES fulfil. Amazing how we tend to believe we know it all instead of the actual developers of the said system! Also, our neighbour is NOT US with all the might and influence in the world, and is also having her share of difficulties in maintaining an edge in air warfare.

Touchy and rude. Don't have an answer. You know what I think the requirements of PAF are? Is to bomb our own people in Fata and Baluchistan and this is how this plane will full fill their requirements. The developers would tell you what ever would sell their product. Of course our neighbor are having difficulties in maintaining an edge in air warfare but not against Pakistan may be against China. Wake up people. You have been fed far too many lies. Think about Mig 29, M2K, MKI and Rafales (Not To Mention PAK_FA). What is the answer?
 
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Touchy and rude. Don't have an answer. You know what I think the requirements of PAF are? Is to bomb our own people in Fata and Baluchistan and this is how this plane will full fill their requirements. The developers would tell you what ever would sell their product. Of course our neighbor are having difficulties in maintaining an edge in air warfare but not against Pakistan may be against China. Wake up people. You have been fed far too many lies. Think about Mig 29, M2K, MKI and Rafales (Not To Mention PAK_FA). What is the answer?
Nuclear deterrent????
Pakistan's economy is really not good enough to go toe-to-toe with India. You should realize that even JF-17 despite all it's cost efficiency manages to push the Def. budget to the edge requiring soft loans.
 
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Touchy and rude. Don't have an answer. You know what I think the requirements of PAF are? Is to bomb our own people in Fata and Baluchistan and this is how this plane will full fill their requirements. The developers would tell you what ever would sell their product. Of course our neighbor are having difficulties in maintaining an edge in air warfare but not against Pakistan may be against China. Wake up people. You have been fed far too many lies. Think about Mig 29, M2K, MKI and Rafales (Not To Mention PAK_FA). What is the answer?

I am a little confused by your posts. It is one thing to play devil's advocate and its another to completely reject the reality.
I've been reading your posts and a few others that are SUPER critical of everything and there are some senior members there too. However, I fail to understand that you or the others in question here know the reality or are in touch with it.

I'd recommend that we close the silly debate and the "wake up Pakistanis, you've been fed lies, etc, etc". You should (and others who are ugly critical of PAF) should provide funds and I'll post air headquarters address here from the google. Send check to them and ask them to buy SU 35, JSF and whatever else .....as its a gift from you to the country. I am SURE they'll appreciate it and the "order or the battlefield" will change per your imagination.

This is crazy. No offense, you've said that you've lived in the US for 27 years (and others have also been here for similar durations), all of a sudden the sheet's hit the fan for you guys?

I respect and appreciate the seniority but dang the negativity. I'd rather folks build something then sit depressed without money and keep having hallucinations about "what could happen if my wet dreams come true and we go buy superman jets" .

Don't worry, if 'something' happens, your life won't be in the harms way as you are sitting in a pretty safe zone.

Here's the reality, being a nuclear state and having 200-300 bvr capable interceptors flying in close proximity has a lot of credibility. In India and Pakistan's scenario, both sides can obtain a lock from 50 to over 100 km's now. That's A LOT of distance. For Pakistan, it means that PAF can fly from FOB's and immediately put a lock onto any incoming plane so there's a risk to whatever SU-30, Mirages, Superman Rafales come in. Sure there's a risk to the Pakistani side too but they are already ready to lose their planes if need be as they HAVE to defend Pakistani airspace. BUT, if you can deter the enemy from coming in, the fight won't happen.....so its that deterrence. JFT has good avionics coupled with Mirages and F 16's. JFT's avionics and radar is very comparable to Mirage 2005, some aspect of Rafale and F 16 block 40 in many ways. Future upgrades will further enhance the capability.
The Chinese nation ran their lives on bicycles for three plus decades...look at where they are at now. Similarly, India had a ban in imports until around mid 90's to support the local industry (remember Maruti's??), look at where they are at now! Similarly, Pakistanis need to study, get educated , work hard and support their country, make local stuff. Its the SIXTH largest population. Imagine where it'll be in 20 years if it built everything local!!! JFT is the STEP in the RIGHT direction from every angle. The "low Tect" jet initially designed to replace crappy A5's and F 7's and 35 year old Mirages is a DIRECT threat to some of the very decent 4th generation planes from a cost & capability's standpoint and it is JUST the first version...there's BII & BIII coming too!
Hope this helps. Let's stop the negativity.
 
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