JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 4]

[SQ8]

Don't quote it out of context, In my previous post I mentioned it during war time.

Even during war time..
Russia is obliged to provide to China..
And China is eager to provide to us.
Russia WILL not offend China to the extent India wishes.
It may suspend sales of complete systems to Pakistan.. but will not stop spares flow to it via China.
Its not personal.. its just good business.

 

[IPL5]

Even during war time..
Russia is obliged to provide to China..
And China is eager to provide to us.
Russia WILL not offend China to the extent India wishes.
It may suspend sales of complete systems to Pakistan.. but will not stop spares flow to it via China.
Its not personal.. its just good business.

Sirjee, Knowing that china forward it to pakistan and being the no.1 strategic ally of india I highly doubt your assertion. As I have posted the news that Russia will help us against the friendly nations, anyone can between the lines. and what benefits russia can have of selling few hundreds of engines in comparison to tap the Indian market ? Russian understand the indian psychology that once offended that won't buy anything from you. Pakistan is immaterial to them.

"I'm not disclosing a state secret but when I visited India four days after the Mumbai terror attacks I told them (the government)...we are ready to provide weapons, modern technology and know-how," said the dynamic 45-year-old President.

Will support India against friendly neighbour: Medvedev - Hindustan Times

 

[BATMAN]

Spares of RD-93 are available from various sources other than Russia.

While JFT is a modular product and can adopt to Chinese engine as well.

 

[SQ8]

Sirjee, Knowing that china forward it to pakistan and being the no.1 strategic ally of india I highly doubt your assertion. As I have posted the news that Russia will help us against the friendly nations, anyone can between the lines. and what benefits russia can have of selling few hundreds of engines in comparison to tap the Indian market ? Russian understand the indian psychology that once offended that won't buy anything from you. Pakistan is immaterial to them.



Will support India against friendly neighbour: Medvedev - Hindustan Times

Please recall what happened with Putin tried to stop the Rd-93 sale.. it backfired.
Russia is taking the same approach the US is.. Sell to Pakistan.. sell a lot more to India...keep everybody happy.

 

[IPL5]

Spares of RD-93 are available from various sources other than Russia.

While JFT is a modular product and can adopt to Chinese engine as well.

sirjee, I think f-16 has a bigger secondary market than RD-93, correct me If I m wrong.

Please recall what happened with Putin tried to stop the Rd-93 sale.. it backfired.
Russia is taking the same approach the US is.. Sell to Pakistan.. sell a lot more to India...keep everybody happy.

sirjee, as I told you we are specifically talking about war time scenario, do you believe that Russia will sale engines of few millions dollar and hamper the potential sale of billions of dollars ?

US case is totally different, US was not selling us initially it was all pakistan was buying with lot of strings... but this strings are not attached to us. we are giving them hard cash to buy expensive toys, their frustrations during MCRA was a tight slap.

 

[SQ8]

sirjee, I think f-16 has a bigger secondary market than RD-93, correct me If I m wrong.



sirjee, as I told you we are specifically talking about war time scenario, do you believe that Russia will sale engines of few millions dollar and hamper the potential sale of billions of dollars ?

US case is totally different, US was not selling us initially it was all pakistan was buying with lot of strings... but this strings are not attached to us. we are giving them hard cash to buy expensive toys, their frustrations during MCRA was a tight slap.

yes I do.. It will sell and INDIA WILL BUY because in war time.. sides are prepared to ignore loopholes..
and spares will be sold to China.. because Russia WILL NOT forsake hundred of millions of dollars in arms supplies to China.
And those spares will come to Pakistan.. its an acceptable idea only if you wish to see a positive scenario for Pakistan,.
Otherwise you may paint all the negative picture you like to appease your views.
Also.. you seem to be focused on war-time thinking that Armed forces only keep just enough spares and usually have to run and buy more from vendors in such critical times. Spare purchase will be needed in a protracted war..
Even in that case.. the first priority will be given to third parties.. and the black market..
then OEM parts.

throughout the 90's we maintained and flew the F-16's under embargo..whose spares are a lot more difficult to procure than the Rd-33 engine which has spares and backup scattered across central Asia.

 

[IPL5]

yes I do.. It will sell and INDIA WILL BUY because in war time.. sides are prepared to ignore loopholes..
and spares will be sold to China.. because Russia WILL NOT forsake hundred of millions of dollars in arms supplies to China.
And those spares will come to Pakistan.. its an acceptable idea only if you wish to see a positive scenario for Pakistan,.
Otherwise you may paint all the negative picture you like to appease your views.
Also.. you seem to be focused on war-time thinking that Armed forces only keep just enough spares and usually have to run and buy more from vendors in such critical times. Spare purchase will be needed in a protracted war..
Even in that case.. the first priority will be given to third parties.. and the black market..
then OEM parts.

throughout the 90's we maintained and flew the F-16's under embargo..whose spares are a lot more difficult to procure than the Rd-33 engine which has spares and backup scattered across central Asia.

As per your reasoning, even f-16 is sanctioned proof and with no string attached. anyways this are offtopic , please carry on with your discussion.

 

[BATMAN]

sirjee, I think f-16 has a bigger secondary market than RD-93, correct me If I m wrong..

I'm not aware of it..... and context is engine, not the entire bird.

 

[SQ8]

As per your reasoning, even f-16 is sanctioned proof and with no string attached. anyways this are offtopic , please carry on with your discussion.

Nothing is 'sanction proof'.. please do not take things out of context.
What are available are workarounds which enable the operations of equipment at reduced rates as compared to no sanctions.
think of it as being able to generate only 5 sorties constantly under sanctions but with workarounds.. as compared to 9 without..
but better than 1 or 2.. without any backup spares.. and for a limited time.

 

[DARKY]

OR the spare parts of some 300 Al-31's.. 60 D-30's, Guns, Missiles.. Electronics.. to China.

Its never black and white.. and both India and China are valuable to Russian defence sales.
Hence.. the Rd-93 embargo never worked in the first place.
They were being sold to China as well..
Moreover.. Russia is not one to embargo easily..

RD-93 was embargoed mainly due the effect it was thought to be having in future on Mig29 sales.. Its pure business from Russian side.. the sale of RD-93 only make PAF more dependent on them for repairs/spares and overhauls... Russians have refused China many things in pasts RD-93 is nothing compared against Al-41 or Item 117C/S supercruising turbofans or the S-400 airdefense system.. Snow Leopard radar to name a few.

While It has been in partnership with India on many of its top level future projects like the 5th Gen. combat plane and has offered its best like SSN/AC/Cruise Missiles... its pretty much clear where they stand as of now... although they might change their stand in future.. however in the current scenario its a far thing.

 

[SQ8]

RD-93 was embargoed mainly due the effect it was thought to be having in future on Mig29 sales.. Its pure business from Russian side.. the sale of RD-93 only make PAF more dependent on them for repairs/spares and overhauls... Russians have refused China many things in pasts RD-93 is nothing compared against Al-41 or Item 117C/S supercruising turbofans or the S-400 airdefense system.. Snow Leopard radar to name a few.

While It has been in partnership with India on many of its top level future projects like the 5th Gen. combat plane and has offered its best like SSN/AC/Cruise Missiles... its pretty much clear where they stand as of now... although they might change their stand in future.. however in the current scenario its a far thing.

Your point is self explanatory as to why the Rd-93 wont be embargoed.
its not a high tech piece of equipment that can tilt the balance.. or provide an edge.
The embargo reason may have been given as that.. but the timing of it makes me doubt that.

 

[DARKY]

Your point is self explanatory as to why the Rd-93 wont be embargoed.
its not a high tech piece of equipment that can tilt the balance.. or provide an edge.
The embargo reason may have been given as that.. but the timing of it makes me doubt that.

In case of China offcourse not.. in case of Pakistan yes If they are the inducted with JF-17 in a big number.. again the sanction or embargo would not be put on effect for say a week long conflict but for say a 2-3 moth war the situation could be a lot different.

 

[Donatello]

To all the crying Indians, i am more confident that WS 13 would be ready long before the situation arises for RD-93 shipments getting sanctioned.

Don't fret over it. Seriously, you guys must be given some award for the amount of BS you can post.

 

[SQ8]

In case of China offcourse not.. in case of Pakistan yes If they are the inducted with JF-17 in a big number.. again the sanction or embargo would not be put on effect for say a week long conflict but for say a 2-3 moth war the situation could be a lot different.

Extremely unlikely scenario to think that it would stay conventional by then.

 

[DARKY]

Extremely unlikely scenario to think that it would stay conventional by then.

Kargil did take some time.. even the Americans used the bomb in final stages of war.. using the bomb so quick... would not leave any thing in Pakistan to fight for... Indian BM and SSBN strength is growing every year... don't relate it to recent development but the simultaneous development of old projects along with current ones which are being shown.

To all the crying Indians, i am more confident that WS 13 would be ready long before the situation arises for RD-93 shipments getting sanctioned.

Don't fret over it. Seriously, you guys must be given some award for the amount of BS you can post.

It certainly shows the amount of emotion and blind faith you have on a Chinese system.. the fact is that even PAAF doesn't use their domestic engines on their single engine planes... they are importing engines even today.. quiet obvious that even PAF refused to opt for Chinese engine but some people think they are more smart than the PLAAF and PAF commanders and engineers.