JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 4]

[The Great One]

Thought the J-10 has been known to beat the MKKs. In what way do you consider the J-10B inferior to the Rafale? Please note, being cheaper/economic is an ADVANTAGE AND NOT A DISADVANTAGE as you are trying to portray.

What ground-based air defence capabilities do you want to see in Pakistan that they don't have? Please give specific capabilities and examples of system brands.

Also consider that if PAF is looking to be defensive, then their requirements (capability, mix and quantinty) will be different to IAF.

IN every which way one might consider, J10B [assuming it's the same as the Chinese fanboys here proudly proclaim] is inferior to Rafale.
@ababeel22 is correct IMO
Pakistan should problably buy S-300's.

 

[alimobin memon]

m new on this forum m from kashmir (india). can any one plz tell me why pakistan is spending so much for a low tech ac like jf17 instead going for some thing much more advanced. if advance acs aren't available to Pakistan then in ma view they should look for more potent air defense systems to counter advance fighter jets of iaf.

Who the hell told you Jf17 is low cost and who told u it aint Advance ? brother it is advance in all aspect , Whole world because of our 90's era that we had most of low tech 3rd generation but truth is we always had the best aircraft available in past except 90's the major embargoed period.... Jf17 is what I call the good aircraft whom PAF's F16 block 16 ocu couldn't lock , that is verified , the cost of jf17 is low is not because it has less advance avionics but the fact is currency of China and pakistan aint that strong as european for example a gripen yea i know it is sexy but it aint the fighter for the range of 60 mn $ i think it is max 30 mil $ but there currency and already emerging market makes people think it is awesome... i have written too much but if u are right then j20 is nothing behind a F22 because it is far more expensive

 

[Tempest II]

spyder air defence system is arguably lot better than our spada2000( just going with what i have read on the web). IAf's mix is definitely different in capability, mix and quantity but what worries me is that its only better in every department. only sphere that we are better at is probably training and skills of pilots. what paf needs is a jet like F15 probably 100 of them to go with 100 f16s of different blocks that we already have, a strong surface to air defence system then we can produce as many jf17s as we like and j10bs.

You have done exactly what I thought you would do … … you have mentioned specific systems/brands and not capabilities. You/me/we don’t have specific info (which tends to be secret) on the Spada2000 vs. the Spyder. You cannot say how the Spyder system is better. We don’t have the Spada2000’s weaknesses and strengths and how the PAF plans to use and exploit these vs. the enemy’s weaknesses and strengths.
I will say the same for the JF-17/J-10 pair vs. the F-16/F-15 pair.
You fail to acknowledge that politics play a big part in what systems you choose.

 

[ziaulislam]

jf-17 to PAF costs 20-25 million..Remeber we are talking of chinese product with very low R&D costs. Even the f-16 being much larger having a much more expenisve engine doesnt cost more than 45 million for its primary user...
in export variant the thunder will certainly be much expensive than 30 million.

we are hearing praise of LCA when it cost exactly similar to thunder even though it has a very expensive engine and very expensive foreign radar in comparison to thunder.

waht i mean to say that for its own catergery it can compete with any other aircrft..
but again..rafale isnt the class to which thunder belongs.. thunder is a very light catergery aircrft

 

[Najam Khan]

Those 50 Quick deliveries are still a mystery.. as there is no official PAF mention or any reports of any other procurement of JF17's other than the ones being manufactured at Kamra at the discussed paces.

You may be right..
But my own sniffing around has given no indication of anything other than the Thunders to be manufactured at Kamra.
Which brings up an interesting theory.. if China would be able to provide 50 JF-17's(considering that the only manufacturing line is in Kamra.. by manufacturing line it means a setup like a factory to churn out Thunders..not a prototype assembly facility).. does China also consider Xialong to be a viable option for its fleet and wishes to have the ability to induct quick numbers of FC-1's if the need arises?

The contract was signed in second week of November last year, just before Dubai Airshow. The term 'Emergency basis' was misinterpreted by the media. Since the roll out of first jet in Nov 2009, PAC was trying to enhance its share in development. After 2nd May, they decided to get more input (both in form of money and manpower) from China.

By no means, these aircraft will be air ferried to Pakistan, they will be built at PAC with a fairly larger percentage of Chinese input in them (as compare to their set ratio from 2012-2016.) The JF-17 avionics facility at PAC is the only facility to accommodate large scale avionics testing, it will be unfeasible (both in terms of cost & time) to build similar facility in China...unless there are some orders for PLAAF/PLAN or upcoming exports.

 

[ababeel22]

I m not at all comparing jf17 with any other jet that ofcourse would be foolish, what m trying to figure out ( from the senior and more knowledgeable members of pdf) that is jf17/j10 programs enough to counter iaf which is inducting high class jets or may b we would have liked to be in a better position than this but cant due to obvious reasons???

 

[Tempest II]

By no means, these aircraft will be air ferried to Pakistan, they will be built at PAC with a fairly larger percentage of Chinese input in them (as compare to their set ratio from 2012-2016.) The JF-17 avionics facility at PAC is the only facility to accommodate large scale avionics testing, it will be unfeasible (both in terms of cost & time) to build similar facility in China...unless there are some orders for PLAAF/PLAN or upcoming exports.

Are you sure? I believe the PAF ACM then or some official press release did say a squadron of JF-17s for the PAF was being put together in China … ??? … I am not in a position to search now but either a video or a press release from Dubai had what I believe was a very official PAF statement that A SQUADRON WAS BEING PUT TOGETHER IN CHINA!!!

 

[Tempest II]

OK … … found something on the press release about the squadron in China from here Pakistan offers cut-price JF17 fighter jet at Dubai Air Show – The Express Tribune

“You can buy three of our aircraft for one F-16,” Chaudhry Ahmed Mukhtar told Reuters at the Dubai Air Show, where the aircraft is being displayed.

He said that the producer, Pakistan Aeronautical Complex, was not able to keep pace with the requirements of the air force.

“Three squadrons are already flying the aircraft in Pakistan and one squadron in China,” he added.

 

[IndiaIsrael]

Any official Information about reasons behind crash of JF 17.

 

[REHAN NIAZI FALCON]

Any official Information about reasons behind crash of JF 17.

how many time we tell,
bird hit is confirm..........
it lead to engine failure....

 

[alimobin memon]

You have done exactly what I thought you would do … … you have mentioned specific systems/brands and not capabilities. You/me/we don’t have specific info (which tends to be secret) on the Spada2000 vs. the Spyder. You cannot say how the Spyder system is better. We don’t have the Spada2000’s weaknesses and strengths and how the PAF plans to use and exploit these vs. the enemy’s weaknesses and strengths.
I will say the same for the JF-17/J-10 pair vs. the F-16/F-15 pair.
You fail to acknowledge that politics play a big part in what systems you choose.

Spada 2000 is actually a software Suite that is replaced to the old Aspide system software Suite ... Software suite increase the capability of any sam then buying a missile or battery for example S300 Sam is replaced by two major things the software suite that detects aircrafts more better and the range of missile. Spada 2000 is an all new system which replace old spada sam system

 

[Tempest II]

Spada 2000 is actually a software Suite that is replaced to the old Aspide system software Suite ... Software suite increase the capability of any sam then buying a missile or battery for example S300 Sam is replaced by two major things the software suite that detects aircrafts more better and the range of missile. Spada 2000 is an all new system which replace old spada sam system

Thanks for the explanation .... .... I still however believe a lot the complains about inferior systems is rhetoric with limited understanding and access classified info of the capabilities

 

[MastanKhan]

I m not at all comparing jf17 with any other jet that ofcourse would be foolish, what m trying to figure out ( from the senior and more knowledgeable members of pdf) that is jf17/j10 programs enough to counter iaf which is inducting high class jets or may b we would have liked to be in a better position than this but cant due to obvious reasons???

Hi,

No it is not-----.

 

[MastanKhan]

m new on this forum m from kashmir (india). can any one plz tell me why pakistan is spending so much for a low tech ac like jf17 instead going for some thing much more advanced. if advance acs aren't available to Pakistan then in ma view they should look for more potent air defense systems to counter advance fighter jets of iaf.

Hi,

The reason being---pakistan has to replace 200---250 mirage 3 / 5's and F 7's different variations---A5's have already been let gone----. Comparing the JF17 to these aircrat---seems to be the obvious reason---. Similiar sized air craft with much superior eectronicss and ground warfare package to date and coming up with a decent mid range BVR capability as well in the near future.

 

[Armstrong]

Hi,

No it is not-----.

Hi,

The reason being---pakistan has to replace 200---250 mirage 3 / 5's and F 7's different variations---A5's have already been let gone----. Comparing the JF17 to these aircrat---seems to be the obvious reason---. Similiar sized air craft with much superior eectronicss and ground warfare package to date and coming up with a decent mid range BVR capability as well in the near future.

Ever the optimist, Khan sahib !