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JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 4]

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The TWR of JF-17 is 0.95. Which means Engine Thrust is not what Tempest shared with us.

this is old value.the new engine thrust info came out very recently in zhaui airshow..

kamara at its own site shows a thrust of 86 kn..
anyway..
thrust of 0.95 is a fully loaded jf-17 (0.95 with 86.6 kn thrust) (86000/89817=0.957)
and if a same jf-17 is in a mission where it not fully loaaded twr may well be above one
 
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Generally a larger wing helps.. the 104 was a manned missile for its day.
The same goes for the X-15.. at the altitudes it reached, there was very little lift coming from the wings.
Climb performance is effected by wing loading.. the U-2 climbs at less power compared to the 104.. but the 104 gets there faster using its better kinetic energy. However.. only the U-2 can sustain that altitude economically.
The 104 needs to stay in burner to keep that high.

My point exactly. Wind loading is more a determinant of maneuverability than ceiling, climb rate being one type of maneuver of course.
 
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My point exactly. Wind loading is more a determinant of maneuverability than ceiling, climb rate being one type of maneuver of course.

True, but not only..
You the U-2 has very low wing loading.. can can turn tighter than a 104.. but against its brute power in the vertical.. its a sitting duck.
Sure having a good dough may contribute to a good pizza.. but its not the only thing that makes a good pizza.
 
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Have you looked at the wing loading figures for the F-104 and the X-15? Obviously, there are other factors involved in determining the ceiling..

True, but not only..
You the U-2 has very low wing loading.. can can turn tighter than a 104.. but against its brute power in the vertical.. its a sitting duck.
Sure having a good dough may contribute to a good pizza.. but its not the only thing that makes a good pizza.

.... which is why I said ".................there are other factors involved .....". :D
 
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Just checked and the F-7 *G variant has a wing area of 24.88 sqm! ... ... I am surprised ... ... I expected the JF-17 to have at least 10% maybe even 20% more wing area!
 
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Pakistan Xiaolong fighter air refueling systems will be fitted with C802
Posted 2011年07月26日10:14 Global Times


July 25, according to Russian military news network reported that the British "Air Force Magazine," July 2011 on an issue of up to 24-page article detailing China and Pakistan jointly developed the JF-17 "Lightning" / FC-1 "owl Dragon "fighter, especially the history of research and development, project progress, structural characteristics, although the apparent color of subjective tendencies and advertising, but without losing the fun. Russian readers may also cause some interest, because the "Fierce Dragon" superior performance, the price is not high, the attractiveness of the larger developing countries, export prospects.
"Air Force Magazine," that talking about the "Fierce Dragon" fighter project, can not ignore the fact that the Pakistan Air Force is involved in the development so far the only fighter. Pakistan Air Force Chief of Staff of Sulaiman stressed that this is Pakistan's nuclear tests in 1998 were U.S. and European sanctions against the special circumstances of the decision.
” He said: "Sanctions and (using) the increase is the development of new aircraft, the main reason for replacing aging aircraft, and cooperation with China is the most sensible for us is the most economically favorable decision."

JF-17 fighter as a new generation of lightweight multi-function, in any weather conditions 24 hours a day fighting with. It uses the glass cockpit, with excellent ergonomics of the "hands on the bar" type flight control system can effectively reduce the pilot workload. “ "Fierce Dragon" maximum speed of 1.6 Mach, thrust-weight is relatively large, is an excellent fighter. As the Pakistan Air Force fighters after killing the target over the horizon do not have the ability, it has been possible to enhance and improve close air combat tactics, and reached a very high standard. According to unconfirmed information, in 2008, "Anatolian Eagle" exercise, the Pakistan Air Force F-16 aircraft results 3-0 win over Europe, "Typhoon" aircraft.
Pakistan in the design of JF-17 without forget the full advantage of this air combat techniques, and using the Chinese developed a very advanced SD-10A medium-range air to air missiles, the fourth generation after the aircraft has been equipped with anti-air BVR goals.
JF-17 can use the Chinese developed "Charlie-5E" short-range missiles and medium-range SD-10 air to air missiles, including the "Fierce Dragon" aircraft July 17, 2010 the first successful launch of "Charlie-5EII" missile, marking the entire aircraft project into a new and important phase.
Prior to the Pakistan Air Force in April 2010 the "high standard" exercise, the "Fierce Dragon" has been fully demonstrated their ability to attack successfully throwing 500 pounds and 2000 pounds-level aerial bombs, hitting the target for the training venue.

Russian media noted that in 2010 the "Fierce Dragon" fighter extravaganza Farnborough Air Show air show before, many people are still the "Fierce Dragon" also need a lot of time as a research and development of a conceptual product, not enough to enter the European fighter market leading products, but also have not tried with the European fighter "Typhoon", "Gripen", "gust", or the U.S. aviation industry product F-15, F-16 or F-22 competition, snatch international market.
As the "Fierce Dragon" the development side, Pakistan card Ratko Aviation Industry Group and China National Aero-Technology Import and Export Corporation would want this product to occupy a larger market share, after all, this is a 21st century modern fighters, the price much lower than similar products in the West, the performance is no less, and is equipped with very advanced systems.
Pakistan believes that the "Fierce Dragon" to help the Near East, Middle East, Far East, Africa and Latin America to achieve their long-awaited air changes.
If necessary, the CMB can be also introduced two versions of the "Fierce Dragon", a number with a more affordable price, performance was no less of Chinese airborne radio equipment and weapons, a Western with a complex airborne radio equipment. In short, all by the client's budget and needs.Many countries now have the "Fierce Dragon" very interested, after all, the aircraft cost-effective for many developing countries is a good choice.

俄媒称,“枭龙”的研发历史可以追溯到上世纪80年代末。 Russian media said, "Xiaolong" R & D dates back to the late 1980s. 1989年美国以巴基斯坦研制核武器为由冻结71架F-16歼击机交付协议,同时禁止诺斯鲁普-格鲁曼公司协助中巴研制新一代歼击机“超-7”,该飞机是中国F-7歼击机的进一步发展型号。 In 1989 the grounds of the United States to Pakistan to develop nuclear weapons freeze 71 F-16 fighter delivery agreement, while prohibiting the Northrop - Grumman to help Pakistan develop a new generation fighter aircraft "over 7", the Chinese F-7 aircraft the further development of model fighter.
Since then Pakistan Air Force bitter experience, that as soon as possible to get rid of sanctions and endless blackmail the United States, decided to continue cooperation with China has independently developed light fighter.
1992 China and Pakistan signed the relevant agreement, agreed to three joint research project based fighter concept, the drafting of the new aircraft's performance and operational requirements, and create the basis for the development of the Palestinian National aviation industry, joint efforts to promote new products to third countries.
1995 agreed on the specific requirements of the new aircraft, the Pakistan Air Force fighters and China signed a memorandum of understanding to set up a new office responsible for project implementation.
1996 Pakistan Air Force "Super 7" fighter design is approved, two years after the Pakistani government signed a further agreement to implement the project-specific, the company decided to start with China as the production prototype to fly, code-named FC-1 "owl Long, "China to help train Pakistani Air Force pilots and engineers.
Early in the project, the Palestinian side only 50% of the overall workload in the Pakistan Air Force to get 150 aircraft, will be one hundred percent by the Pakistani aviation sector is responsible for new aircraft production.
But the United States and Europe in October 1999 because of India and Pakistan have conducted nuclear tests and the outbreak of armed conflict on bilateral sanctions, leading to "super 7" project in trouble again, Western companies involved in the project can not get the necessary export licenses, so that China and Pakistan is facing many new technical problems.
Pakistan Air Force then decided to use China-made system to be replaced, but the initial progress is not smooth.
In November 2000 Pakistan Air Force Chief of Staff Ali - Mir important recommendations, the overall progress of the project that led to the slow flying airborne systems and separate R & D platform itself, for go hand in hand, hoping to end of the project overall R & D fighter, airborne radio-electronic equipment was to achieve a more advanced level. Ten years later proved that this decision is correct.

Russian media said the Pakistan Air Force after seizing every opportunity to actively study the ability to install a variety of aircraft equipment and systems. 2003 August 25, 2003 China to achieve a "super -7" fighter's first flight.
Pakistan Air Force said its "super -7" officially renamed the JF-17, the "Joint Fighter-17", intended to reflect the aircraft's Pakistani origin, the number "17" means it is more than the Pakistan army was the most advanced F-16 also advanced.
The first prototype flight in eight months after the April 9, 2004 test samples of the second frame machine PT-3 launch in Chengdu, the next day the Pakistan Air Force pilots flew the first flight.
The end of 2006, the Pakistan Air Force has been testing four prototypes, the first five have started ground testing.
PT-4 and PT-6 equipped with China's radio-electronic equipment, including PT-4 August 2009 delivery on the Palestinian side, for flight certification in Pakistan, which became the basis of the JF-17 sample.
After China re-design of JF-17 inlet, switch to non-separated Road supersonic inlet, the DSI using the most advanced technology to improve engine efficiency and reduce landing speed, reduced takeoff and landing roll distance, reducing the infrared radiation characteristics. This aircraft under adverse conditions of combat use is an important advantage, is the dream of Pakistan Air Force.
At that time the only use of foreign aircraft in the United States similar to the inlet of the fifth generation fighter F-35.

In addition to China 4 prototype test, the eight small-batch production of the "Fierce Dragon" all delivered in 2007-2008, the Palestinian side.
Use the first two transport aircraft delivered in February 2007, Kamla, after the successful assembly of Pakistan on March 2 in the aviation industry within the group completed its first flight, finishing on March 23 Pakistani flag, took part in the Pakistan National Day military parade . After the first production aircraft type "Fierce Dragon" (No. 07-101) also use a special pattern, painted in national colors of Brazil, and still in use.
February 18, 2010 Pakistan Air Force JF-17 fighter pilot squadron incorporated into the 26th Air Force, before April of that year with 12 "Fierce Dragon", including the first flight of production aircraft.
26 unit responsible for assessing the "Fierce Dragon" flight performance testing airborne radio electronic equipment and weapons systems, training fleet pilots, most of them flying from the 7th Brigade, has experience serving in the air defense forces, driving the "Phantom IIIEA "or F-16 fighter, is rich in airborne radar using skills.

Russian media said the April 11, 2011 JF-17 project is completed another important phase of work. Pakistan Air Force 26th Air Force rotations to Peshawar, began to equip the new JF-17, all models of the future will be "Fierce Dragon" test.
China and Pakistan prepared to "Fierce Dragon" throughout the service period of its five major modern improvements, priority is to install air refueling system, integrated infrared target acquisition and tracking system.

Pakistan Aviation Industry Group is now the "Phantom" fighter install air refueling system, in order to master new technologies, gain the experience necessary to carry out similar to the JF-17 conversion work.
Now the 26th Battalion priority for the new production of the "Fierce Dragon" fighter pilot training, but also for the Pakistani army is continuing significance of the airborne-ground weapons testing.
Now weapons testing and other experiments are being conducted simultaneously. In order to ensure that the aircraft has a high operational effectiveness, "Fierce Dragon" equipped with a large number of various types of weapons systems, including conventional weapons and high-precision weapons, and the complex radio-electronic equipment and precision navigation system.

In addition, the "Fierce Dragon" still in Chinese-made C-802 anti-ship missiles, the first phase of integration is expected to soon be tested.
Advanced airborne radio electronic equipment to ensure the "Fierce Dragon" battlefield survivability, with aerial refueling capability to stay in the air after longer, with the border areas in Pakistan to implement any desired location against the ability to more effectively protect national security.


Pakistan aviation industry a few years to consider a variety of "Fierce Dragon" airborne radar configuration, including the Pakistan Air Force in a very popular Italian Grifo radar, had been in "Phantom", F-7P, F-7PG aircraft. Pakistan must be specifically requested radar receiver is compatible with airborne weapons systems, to ensure that medium-range air to air missiles can be used. Although the aircraft was originally certified to debug and radio electronic equipment was used when the Grifo S radar, but the Pakistan Air Force or for the first eight small group of "Fierce Dragon" chose China's independently developed KLJ-7 radar.

This is a multi-standard Doppler radar, the main advantage is the compact, small size, search range, and advanced performance, high resolution, ideal for the "Fierce Dragon" fighter. JF-17 as the search target, the primary means to guide weapons, KLJ-7 radar, radio-electronic equipment by modern 1553/1760 interface and weapons systems integrated into a whole, and thus continue to enhance the performance of the aircraft have the potential to use both Chinese weapons, can use Western weapons, especially with China SD-10A air missile performance has increased significantly. In addition, the Pakistan Air Force is also considering using a similar medium-range missiles and Western airborne radio electronic equipment, to ensure that JF-17 become so frightened of enemy air defense platform.
Russian media said the first batch of 50 JF-17 aircraft, including eight in Chinese-made small batches, and the Palestinian side assembly 42 high-volume, full use of China airborne radio electronic equipment, plans to be delivered in early 2012 Pakistan Air Force. The second batch of 50 JF-17 procurement contract was May 19, 2011 signed. Pakistan still hoping to get Western airborne radio electronic equipment, because the JF-17's biggest advantage is that it's fully open, and never confined to a single configuration. In addition, Pakistan plans to gradually put national industries in the "Fierce Dragon" co-production projects in the proportion increased to 80%, including Kamla assembled in China KLJ-7 airborne radar.
Pakistan Air Force, a senior official said: "Two years ago I had the French said, if you do not help us, not to provide radio-electronic equipment, then we will let you believe that a few years the Chinese people can also create a similar device results they did. "The fact that the Pakistan Air Force will not want to get some equipment from one country to delay the" Fierce Dragon "fighter production, the Palestinian side on this issue is very real.
Now, China and Pakistan are still actively selling to the international market, JF-17, particularly the use of MiG -21, F-7, F-5, "Mirage III", "Phantom IV" of the country.
"Fierce Dragon" has caused a high level of interest in many countries, this is not surprising, as it advanced, the price is not high, in line with cost-effective standards for most developing countries is a good choice. (编译:书山) (Compiled: Shu-shan)
(编辑:SN049) (Edit: SN049)
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A/A Dear friends,
With all these thing i.e AESA, IRST and probably v shaped canopy etc etc on cards, it will b a viable and good choice for PAF to add this fighter in numbers but, i think the following things must also b addressed. 1. Better payload.2. Dual racks 3. G limit 4. Fully loaded speed of not less than 2.0 mach 5. New engine and 6. Greater meneuverability
 
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A/A Dear friends,
With all these thing i.e AESA, IRST and probably v shaped canopy etc etc on cards, it will b a viable and good choice for PAF to add this fighter in numbers but, i think the following things must also b addressed. 1. Better payload.2. Dual racks 3. G limit 4. Fully loaded speed of not less than 2.0 mach 5. New engine and 6. Greater meneuverability

its not V shaped canopy rather v-shaped or diamond shaped nose
 
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its not V shaped canopy rather v-shaped or diamond shaped nose

Thanks for correction. Really i do not want to c this jet in the same LCA catagory but somewhat near to J10b that will b great for our nation. Love pakistan love u so much.
 
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Thanks for correction. Really i do not want to c this jet in the same LCA catagory but somewhat near to J10b that will b great for our nation. Love pakistan love u so much.

Ahmn, Child, play with your own toy, why bother to drag LCA into it.
 
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Thanks for correction. Really i do not want to c this jet in the same LCA catagory but somewhat near to J10b that will b great for our nation. Love pakistan love u so much.

LCA catagory?
if u mean 4th gen than u cant help it Jf and Lca r both 4th gen as of now no on can predict the future
 
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Nose shape changes.......! Is reduction in thickness of fuselage is in consideration in pursuit of reduction of RCS? or some other changes for same purpose?
 
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F/A-18 - 454 kg/m²
F-15 - 358 kg/m²
F-16 - 431 kg/m²

Everybody here has neglected the effect of fuselage in creating lift & thus have neglected in discussion the +ive effect of blended-wing designs (MiG-29 & F-16) on increasing the wing loading. Thus we see greater wing loading values for a relatively smaller F-16 relative to larger f-15/18....
 
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F/A-18 - 454 kg/m²
F-15 - 358 kg/m²
F-16 - 431 kg/m²

Everybody here has neglected the effect of fuselage in creating lift & thus have neglected in discussion the +ive effect of blended-wing designs (MiG-29 & F-16) on increasing the wing loading. Thus we see greater wing loading values for a relatively smaller F-16 relative to larger f-15/18....

You make a very good point. Thanks.
 
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