JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 3]

[araz]

and in such a long time you come up with such an investment people gotta be kidding with lets say $3 billion in 22 years is a joke rip off fraud angels doing corruption and bad decision bad investment and they keep on looping. I'm not concerned with other institutions the focus is PAF its a negative approach to say other institutions do it so PAF did it too so what is the difference! myth vs relaity No more Angels in PAF, PAF should quit those statments regarding airspace, PAF is in trouble for what we know is their negative short term approach and bad decisions over and over again.

I have already answered your question. I dont think you are saying anything new and you have distorted my statemnt to your needs which is unfair.Please read the earlier post again and if there is any specific example you want to talk about we can continue the debate. However , if you just want to bash away without listening to what others have to say, then happy hunting.
Regards
Araz

 

[iPhone]

Hi,


Aimarraul---just so that you might have missed it somewhere---major weapons systems are supposed to make a statement---a statement of their presence, aggrression and capabilities. Major weapons systems procurements are designed so that the enemy has to stop in its tracks to re-judge and analyze the situation---is it worth fighting for---or---is peace a better solution.

JF 17 doesnot make any statements---i.

:

I think I know what you are saying here and I kind of agree, too but at the same time when taking everything into account i.e. the Indian economic superiority and all the number games which play into India's favor it wouldn't matter how many *** kicking european jets Pakistan acquire 'cuz they'd never be enough, you still wouldn't be making any kind of statement and still wouldn't be able to make India stop and think if they're hell bent on a war with their huge number of war machines. The only thing you sure would have done is waste a whooping amount of money on war toys that are not indigenous and you'd still be dependent on the foreign countries for their upgrade, parts and labor. Not a very good option.

You don't have to be a "think tank" to know that the only effective war preventive measure Pakistan possess is it's WMD. Period. You mentioned the cold war, when most members here were wearing diapers and some like me weren't even born but whatever little bit of the history of the event I studied it seems it was a huge stock pile of WMD on both sides that stopped each other from "pressing the button."

 

[HAIDER]

SLAMABAD - Pakistan said it has commenced domestic production of avionics for the Sino-Pak JF-17 Thunder combat aircraft.

The announcement came May 28 at a ceremony attended by Air Chief Marshal Rao Qamar Suleman at the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) in Kamra, just outside Islamabad.


To date, the majority of avionics produced in Pakistan have been manufactured under license from foreign companies, most notably Selex Galileo radars for the Air Force's Mirage III and F-7P Fishbed fighters. However, this looks set to change.

During the May 28 ceremony, the PAC's chairman, Air Marshal Farhat Hussain Khan, outlined the JF-17 avionics, in which he stated, "four indigenously designed and developed avionics systems were also being produced," and that the "production scope would be progressively broadened to include the production of a complete JF-17 avionics suite at the complex."

Officials at PAC could not provide any details on the announcement, and Air Force officials declined to answer any queries.

It is believed, however, that at least two of the domestically designed and produced systems include a head-up display and a weapons and mission management computer.

Past indigenous avionics projects have included a radar homing system in the 1960s for the F-104 fighter jet; an IRST pod and modifications to the GEC 956 HUD (Head Up Display); and the HUDWAC (HUD Weapon Aiming Computer) for the F-7P in the 1990s.

Efforts to sustain avionics design in Pakistan have not succeeded.

Retired Air Commodore Kaiser Tufail said he believes the reason is because it has "not been a viable proposition so far."

However, large-scale indigenous production of the JF-17 and potential export sales mean such a move is now more economically viable, he said.

Tufai said the Air Force has the potential to succeed because it has "a very large pool of highly qualified avionics engineers at the bachelor's, master's and even doctorate level, both serving and retired."

If that potential does result in a focused effort, "the next decade may well see Pakistan establish itself as one of the leading Asia-Pacific producers of avionics hardware and software," he said.
Pakistan Begins Domestic Fighter Avionics Production - Defense News

 

[Luftwaffe]

araz...and read my post there is nothing i am bashing about. And yes your statements were distorted as i just refined and clarified. lets just talk about PAF as an organization not about other government institutions. Yes i have nothing new to add the old ones are enough to be clarified and answered non has no far satisfactory answers infact non will ever have. I stand correct PAF is just in loops, first were F-7P/F-PG and the statements were we've this problem and that problem and now this day the loops are in form of thunder. apart from F-16s is there any Top high class fighers ever purchased or given a serious thought to buy Non what so ever don't tell me PAF went sweden, france and here and there it means nothing unless you are serious a serious buyer and you buy it and show it. (will discuss FC-20 when its in production for PAF!)

 

[Brotherhood]

I don't know its been post or not, if yes, kindly ignore it.

 

[Luftwaffe]

I believe the first image i posted long time ago in a Thunder related thread. no need to be removed.

 

[razgriz19]

I don't know its been post or not, if yes, kindly ignore it.

in the last pic, the cockpit looks different than the one thunder has rite now...

 

[F86 Saber]

I think I know what you are saying here and I kind of agree, too but at the same time when taking everything into account i.e. the Indian economic superiority and all the number games which play into India's favor it wouldn't matter how many *** kicking european jets Pakistan acquire 'cuz they'd never be enough, you still wouldn't be making any kind of statement and still wouldn't be able to make India stop and think if they're hell bent on a war with their huge number of war machines. The only thing you sure would have done is waste a whooping amount of money on war toys that are not indigenous and you'd still be dependent on the foreign countries for their upgrade, parts and labor. Not a very good option.

You don't have to be a "think tank" to know that the only effective war preventive measure Pakistan possess is it's WMD. Period. You mentioned the cold war, when most members here were wearing diapers and some like me weren't even born but whatever little bit of the history of the event I studied it seems it was a huge stock pile of WMD on both sides that stopped each other from "pressing the button."

Very Very well put....... Totally agree and my point exactly.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

In todays jang---there is a statement from the prime minister. He is openly stating the threat of possible attack from india due to a higher purchase of defence equipment by india.

There are a lots of young people and lots of seniors on this board who are living in the past---we did this to you with what we had---what kind of statement is that living in the 21st century.

In the last century we fought with weapons pretty much similiar to the enemies---most of the time our american weapons were superior to the indian weapons of russian origin.

Our training was much superior to the indians---our pilots got trained by the americans---flying american equipment---the indians had a hodge podge of equipment and training from all different sources---and they had a lack of leadership.

They also didnot have enough built up of hate---today they do---they didnot have confidence about their equipment---today they do---plus they have israeli operators guiding them through and possibly operating with them as well---now will come the comments from some---about the Shaheen over golan---well my tigers---if that is how you feel---I can't fight this battle all by myself for very long.

The american sidewinder was the superior most air to air missile in those earlier conflicts. Please keep the focus on reality---and not on rhetoric.

I want to ask you guys---are you people for real---or is it just this much analytical prowess that you have.

The lock that the F 16 had on th su 30 was a BAIT---my young warrior---it was entrapment by the indians---it was intentional---the su 30 showed its tail to the F 16 for a lock in---it was a dare by the indians---it was all a part of the setup---they tried their best to snare PAF into launching a missile. It was a chance of fortune that the missile was not launched---.

At the time of F 7 pg delivery---we were in a confrontation. Before that we didnot have the money to buy them.

The current fighter aircraft are unlike the F 7 PG's---today a pilot cannot just simply jump in the cockpit of a JF 17 or a blk 52 for the first time and run circles around te enemy.

The cold war didnot turn into a real war because of number of nuclear weapons as well as the number to conventional weapons as well.

In the current scenario---U S will interfere to negate the deployment and release of pakistani nuclear weapons. Take my word for it.

The u s has contingency plans to take out every known location by air strikes---that is why you don't see any comments coming from america about containment. Secondly india will possible get the missile deterent against long range missile launches. This deterent would shoot down the missile over the user's territory---so please don't dwell on the idea of nukes over here.

Pakistan is slowly but surely being strangulated---would you be feeling short of breath---I doubt it very much---you cannot recognize the deception of your very own---how could you recognize the slight and treachery of others.

 

[bc040400065]

After reading all the post sir MK i must say truth hearts but we have to face it. Although i like thunder and i know our economic conditions don't allow us to buy expensive toys but my dear friends i think all of you will see a different india in about 5 to 10 years. the way they are building their Airforce and navy and The situation that we are in ... i don't think so if this remains the same the WMD will count anymore in 5 to 10 years. We must accept that our policy makers have done blunders. just look at last 2 decades. what we bought F7P PG, refurbished mirage 3/5. and look at India in last 2 decades Mig29, M2K, and SU30. and future you will see MRCA and FGFA. There was a time when in 1982 we were the first country in South Asia to buy a 4th generation jet but what after that?? We made a big mistake and we should accept that.

 

[Siv_anand]

Hi,

In todays jang---there is a statement from the prime minister. He is openly stating the threat of possible attack from india due to a higher purchase of defence equipment by india.

There are a lots of young people and lots of seniors on this board who are living in the past---we did this to you with what we had---what kind of statement is that living in the 21st century.

In the last century we fought with weapons pretty much similiar to the enemies---most of the time our american weapons were superior to the indian weapons of russian origin.

Our training was much superior to the indians---our pilots got trained by the americans---flying american equipment---the indians had a hodge podge of equipment and training from all different sources---and they had a lack of leadership.

They also didnot have enough built up of hate---today they do---they didnot have confidence about their equipment---today they do---plus they have israeli operators guiding them through and possibly operating with them as well---now will come the comments from some---about the Shaheen over golan---well my tigers---if that is how you feel---I can't fight this battle all by myself for very long.

The american sidewinder was the superior most air to air missile in those earlier conflicts. Please keep the focus on reality---and not on rhetoric.

I want to ask you guys---are you people for real---or is it just this much analytical prowess that you have.

The lock that the F 16 had on th su 30 was a BAIT---my young warrior---it was entrapment by the indians---it was intentional---the su 30 showed its tail to the F 16 for a lock in---it was a dare by the indians---it was all a part of the setup---they tried their best to snare PAF into launching a missile. It was a chance of fortune that the missile was not launched---.

At the time of F 7 pg delivery---we were in a confrontation. Before that we didnot have the money to buy them.

The current fighter aircraft are unlike the F 7 PG's---today a pilot cannot just simply jump in the cockpit of a JF 17 or a blk 52 for the first time and run circles around te enemy.

The cold war didnot turn into a real war because of number of nuclear weapons as well as the number to conventional weapons as well.

In the current scenario---U S will interfere to negate the deployment and release of pakistani nuclear weapons. Take my word for it.

The u s has contingency plans to take out every known location by air strikes---that is why you don't see any comments coming from america about containment. Secondly india will possible get the missile deterent against long range missile launches. This deterent would shoot down the missile over the user's territory---so please don't dwell on the idea of nukes over here.

Pakistan is slowly but surely being strangulated---would you be feeling short of breath---I doubt it very much---you cannot recognize the deception of your very own---how could you recognize the slight and treachery of others.

OMG...so thrz a strong possibility of a war ? and all long range missiles & Nuclear deterrence falling apart..well it depends on how US influences the war..as mentioned by their contingency plans..they may strike the nuclear sites and have spy satellites to look in all sq inches of Pak territory to see for any movement of long range missiles..what a scary scenario for ordinary citizens...India was once a "peace loving" country with lots of principles ..not any more, their hatred toward Pakistan is at the peak after Kargil & Mumbai incidents.we have new generations, violent & aggressive & materialistic..and the Israel factor is a major key in any defense topic related to INDIA...but to Pakistan their only hope is China and what stance CHINA will take in case of war with INDIA.Something has to be done to bring relations to normal ASAP,its getting out of hand, daily am hearing India acquires this & that..it seems India can have anything it wants..they are even trying to negate End user Licence agreement etc with Strong lobbying in US with Israel's backup...US to keep CHINA under check is prompting to give India anything it wants...India on the other hand is blocking major purchases of Pakistan eg: U boats & by having negotiations with such vendors...MRCA deal etc

 

[hataf]

I don't know its been post or not, if yes, kindly ignore it.

the first one will become my wallpaper

 

[hataf]

After reading all the post sir MK i must say truth hearts but we have to face it. Although i like thunder and i know our economic conditions don't allow us to buy expensive toys but my dear friends i think all of you will see a different india in about 5 to 10 years. the way they are building their Airforce and navy and The situation that we are in ... i don't think so if this remains the same the WMD will count anymore in 5 to 10 years. We must accept that our policy makers have done blunders. just look at last 2 decades. what we bought F7P PG, refurbished mirage 3/5. and look at India in last 2 decades Mig29, M2K, and SU30. and future you will see MRCA and FGFA. There was a time when in 1982 we were the first country in South Asia to buy a 4th generation jet but what after that?? We made a big mistake and we should accept that.

just tell me that did we have any other option

and believe me that WMD will count till the end of the world

 

[F86 Saber]

Hi,

In todays jang---there is a statement from the prime minister. He is openly stating the threat of possible attack from india due to a higher purchase of defence equipment by india.

There are a lots of young people and lots of seniors on this board who are living in the past---we did this to you with what we had---what kind of statement is that living in the 21st century.

In the last century we fought with weapons pretty much similiar to the enemies---most of the time our american weapons were superior to the indian weapons of russian origin.

Our training was much superior to the indians---our pilots got trained by the americans---flying american equipment---the indians had a hodge podge of equipment and training from all different sources---and they had a lack of leadership.

They also didnot have enough built up of hate---today they do---they didnot have confidence about their equipment---today they do---plus they have israeli operators guiding them through and possibly operating with them as well---now will come the comments from some---about the Shaheen over golan---well my tigers---if that is how you feel---I can't fight this battle all by myself for very long.

The american sidewinder was the superior most air to air missile in those earlier conflicts. Please keep the focus on reality---and not on rhetoric.

I want to ask you guys---are you people for real---or is it just this much analytical prowess that you have.

The lock that the F 16 had on th su 30 was a BAIT---my young warrior---it was entrapment by the indians---it was intentional---the su 30 showed its tail to the F 16 for a lock in---it was a dare by the indians---it was all a part of the setup---they tried their best to snare PAF into launching a missile. It was a chance of fortune that the missile was not launched---.

At the time of F 7 pg delivery---we were in a confrontation. Before that we didnot have the money to buy them.

The current fighter aircraft are unlike the F 7 PG's---today a pilot cannot just simply jump in the cockpit of a JF 17 or a blk 52 for the first time and run circles around te enemy.

The cold war didnot turn into a real war because of number of nuclear weapons as well as the number to conventional weapons as well.

In the current scenario---U S will interfere to negate the deployment and release of pakistani nuclear weapons. Take my word for it.

The u s has contingency plans to take out every known location by air strikes---that is why you don't see any comments coming from america about containment. Secondly india will possible get the missile deterent against long range missile launches. This deterent would shoot down the missile over the user's territory---so please don't dwell on the idea of nukes over here.

Pakistan is slowly but surely being strangulated---would you be feeling short of breath---I doubt it very much---you cannot recognize the deception of your very own---how could you recognize the slight and treachery of others.

Wow on one hand you are saying we need upgraded weapons to counter India and on the other hand you are saying our WMD's wouldn't count for anything because USA will neutralize them with their contingency plan of taking our missile sites out with air strikes.

So tell me what do you suggest we buy in order to protect ourselves from air strikes carried out by F-22 Raptors, B-2's and B-9's ??

Furthermore, you are saying India will be given anti missile systems that will destroy our WMD's mid air, so by this logic, even if we buy advanced fighters India will probably be provided with Raptors so what are we going to do than?

Even if we assign our total budget to the air force and somehow purchase 50 odd Euro fighters what will that do? India will simply go and purchase Raptors or F-35's. And in that case no international planning will be required to destroy or strangle Pakistan as 16 million Pakistanis will die of hunger.

So from your long speeches it can be concluded that Pakistan is already doomed and nothing can save it now.

I am sorry but i fail to understand if you are merely a pessimist or something else because just two posts from you an Indian member quoted your post and reiterated your points.

 

[bc040400065]

just tell me that did we have any other option

and believe me that WMD will count till the end of the world

i think we had better choice than F7 and old mirages. as i read history we were offered Mirage2000, Panavia Tornado, and even Mig29 and Su27 by Ukrain. Atleast i think these all options were much better than F7 or old ex aussies/french/spanish mirages 3/5.