JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 3]

[Zarbe Momin]

Indians consider MKI only second to F-22

What about , Su-35 , F-35 , F-15S, F-15SE , F-16E/F , Typhoon ?

According to some sources MKI can be detected almost 400 kms away which gives enough time to shoot it down.

Last year MKI penetrated in Pakistan Air Space - F-16 Locked on it successfully.

Our Air force can slay down all MKI's when in our own air space.

Can you give any proof of lock on MK1 in pakistani space . Thanks

 

[hataf]

Can you give any proof of lock on MK1 in pakistani space . Thanks

i also read that in some forum


its near Mumbai attack.... when India has a fever of surgical strike

at that time, i read it that COAS kiani, show some photograph to US ambassador or some General, where F-16 have a lock on MKI

 

[mean_bird]

JF-17 and PAF arriving at Farnborough video

 

[MastanKhan]

I read an interview before regarding PAF's decision on m2k:

The PAF official mentioned several things:

1. French fighter/equipment/support is expensive.
2. Couldn't negotiate much on the price with french.
3. France is the major partner on the HAL Tejas project, there is a conflict of interest.

On the other hand, with JF-17, PAF acquired

1. Technology/knowledge ( of building a modern jet fighter ) which no western country would be willing to provide.
2. A reliable source of future support/upgrade (China has proved itself to be a friend Pakistan can count on)
3. A huge bargaining chip that can be used against western countries in future negotiations.

The PAF official mentioned that US complained multiple times to PAF about JF-17 project, and he thinks JF-17 played an important role in US's change of attitude regarding the F-16

Hi,

Sir, that was 20---25 years ago. So, what do we tell our children---it was expensive that is why we kowtowed to the enemy.

There was no Tejas at that time----as a matter of fact france wanted pakistan to have a mirage assembly and manufacture plant.

 

[MastanKhan]

MK Bhai,

If memory serves me right....

Mirage-2000 began getting inducted to the IAF from 1985 and got completed within a few years.

Completion of 1st batch of 40 F-16s (Peace Gate-I & II) by 1986-87 and the 2nd batch of 11 attrition F-16s (Peace Gate-III) was ordered in 1988 and another 60 (Peace Gate-IV) were ordered in 1989 (we all know what happened afterward).

IAF received its 1st Mirage-2000 much before the completion of delivery of the 1st 40 F-16s.

How could PAF had gone for the Mirage-2000 instead of F-16s when IAF had already started receiving it within 2 years of the PAF getting the 1st F-16 in 1983?

Decision of getting additional F-16s weren't finalized by then.

Regards

Hi,

Instead of going for the second batch pf F 16's---pak should have taken the m2k route----sanctions were up in the air all the time.

Pak should not even had gone for the first batch either.

They should have gone for the F 1----and then m2k when it came out. the F 1 woyuld have given them air superiority that they needed against the russians on afg border and then transitioned to the m2k's.

F 16 procurement by paf was a big big blunder---it opened up a way and gave india the oppurtunity to get the best aircraft available in the market that was the m2k---.

Now coming to the jf 17---SUPPOSE we may get the avionics package in the next 3 months---and the sd 10 as well---what do people think that the paf will be ready to dare anyone just like that-----.

It will take them a hard 3---5 years training to be the best at their craft for that aircraft. Jf 17 is going to be a very capable aircraft one day---if given enough time.

There are one too many projects that the paf has at the same time----it has stretched itself real real thin. It cannot afford to make any mistakes.

 

[satishkumarcsc]

You overestimate the MKI, I don't see how the MKI can cross the border and survive - assuming of course that Pakistan's air defense assets are intact. Make no mistake the MKI is more vulnerable than most in hostile air space - we established this when the MKI's came to Nellis. IMHO Pakistani air space is adequately protected once all F-16's are upgraded and JF-17 acquires BVR capability.

You established nothing when the fighter was flying blind. The EW systems were switched off and the radar was in training mode. By the time everything is upgraded and the JF 17s are in adequate numbers the IAF will have upgraded Mirage 2000s and MiG 29s. Let alone the SU 30 MKI. Then we might even have a squadron of the MMRCA winner the time J 10Bs are inducted. And give me one good reason why the SU 30 MKI will be more vulnerable in Hostile air space when it is not the vice versa for PAF? Well it is not only the US that has SEAD capabilities...many other countries have them too.

 

[satishkumarcsc]

Indians consider MKI only second to F-22

What about , Su-35 , F-35 , F-15S, F-15SE , F-16E/F , Typhoon ?

According to some sources MKI can be detected almost 400 kms away which gives enough time to shoot it down.

Last year MKI penetrated in Pakistan Air Space - F-16 Locked on it successfully.

Our Air force can slay down all MKI's when in our own air space.

Well If F 16 had locked onto the Su 30 MKI then the SU 30 would have also done the same with its radar. We could have fired the BVR well inside our territory. And can you give me the sources other than your personal blogs which says MKI can be detected from 400 kms with a fighter radar.

 

[iPhone]

Wars have been lost by minutes and hours---and here we are 20 + years behind the clock and that doesnot effect anyone on the board---.

Maybe most of you were not conscious of what was happening 22 years ago---I don't blame you for that.

then what is stopping India from trampling all over Pakistan? esp. after the Mumbai incident? you're also saying there is no nuclear option as Pakistan's nuclear assets have been scooped out by USA in their entirety about two years ago and will be taken care of before Pakistan can even think of using them against India. If all of what you say is true, though I think it's bologna, India shouldn't have wasted a minute after the Mumbai incident and struck Pakistan, or at least PAF. Nothing like that happened. What gives?

 

[SQ8]

then what is stopping India from trampling all over Pakistan? esp. after the Mumbai incident? you're also saying there is no nuclear option as Pakistan's nuclear assets have been scooped out by USA in their entirety about two years ago and will be taken care of before Pakistan can even think of using them against India. If all of what you say is true, though I think it's bologna, India shouldn't have wasted a minute after the Mumbai incident and struck Pakistan, or at least PAF. Nothing like that happened. What gives?

Do you guys KNOW what its like in a nuclear war??..
That you seems to ordain the use of Nukes as fun??
why dont you take some time and watch this movie..its got 10 or twelve parts.. and Imagine yourself, your family where these people are.. and then see if nukes and war is such a glorious option..

Taimi the newer falcons, the eagle.. all fly with conformal antenna's.. just have to find the workaround.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Well If F 16 had locked onto the Su 30 MKI then the SU 30 would have also done the same with its radar. We could have fired the BVR well inside our territory. And can you give me the sources other than your personal blogs which says MKI can be detected from 400 kms with a fighter radar.

This is not ur PC game. Indian kids try to be realistic for once in ur life. tell me did the mki shoot the f-16 after it was locked?

 

[iPhone]

Do you guys KNOW what its like in a nuclear war??..
That you seems to ordain the use of Nukes as fun??
why dont you take some time and watch this movie..its got 10 or twelve parts.. and Imagine yourself, your family where these people are.. and then see if nukes and war is such a glorious option..
YouTube - The Day After, Part I

hold on there, guy, hold your horses. Don't make me out to be what I'm not, a nuclear warmonger. But whatever the case, Pakistan developed nuclear weapons for a reason, right. A last minute resort against India incase of a war where everything is closing in on Pakistan and also as a conventional war preventing measure which may give birth to that last minute scenario where Pakistan may have to use it's nuclear weapons. Or maybe Pakistan just developed them for shits and giggles. Believe whichever you want to. God, people here are way oversensitive.

 

[Dazzler]

PAF F-16 A did have a lock on IAF SU-30 MKI when it tried to enter our airspace. I know the pilot who had this honor. MKI is good but surely has a HUGE RCS and got picked on F-16 from more than 140 kms away. There is a reason why they ran away. I know this will break bollywood fantasies but truth hurts !

 

[SQ8]

hold on there, guy, hold your horses. Don't make me out to be what I'm not, a nuclear warmonger. But whatever the case, Pakistan developed nuclear weapons for a reason, right. A last minute resort against India incase of a war where everything is closing in on Pakistan and also as a conventional war preventing measure which may give birth to that last minute scenario where Pakistan may have to use it's nuclear weapons. Or maybe Pakistan just developed them for shits and giggles. God, people here are way oversensitive. Believe whichever you want to.

Yeah people do get oversensitive when nukes are talked about like playthings. Shits and giggles??.. What .. you're gonna sit pretty in your house when this happens?..and **** and giggle if we go nuclear?.. The whole concept of deterrence is NEVER having to use it. Fear of the scenario in the link I posted.. is what nukes are for...and that is what we made them for.
Last minute scenario.. last minute is your last minute, it is the nightmare of or military to go to THAT limit when our very existence is threatened. The nukes are our greatest asset since we hope and pray we NEVER have to use em. And right now.. the conventional disparity we are facing that threshold is going lower and lower. It that fear of Us launching them in case we mismanage or lose unacceptably that keeps India at bay, No sane person on this or the other side of the border wants to see millions of their kith and kin dead..
**** and giggles.. funny.

Taimi take a look at this

Much neater dont you think?

Nabil.. the Indian aircraft came in as far as Kharian.. but were locked on all the way.. the were probing and ROE's from Islamabad did not allow us to shoot first.

 

[iPhone]

Yeah people do get oversensitive when nukes are talked about like playthings. Shits and giggles??.. What .. you're gonna sit pretty in your house when this happens?..and **** and giggle if we go nuclear?.. The whole concept of deterrence is NEVER having to use it. Fear of the scenario in the link I posted.. is what nukes are for...and that is what we made them for.

what are you talking about, man? what did I say that is so objectionable? and why are you getting so personal with me? I dont even know how to respond to what you posted. All I'm saying is Pakistan developed nuclear weapons to protect itself from any misadventure from India. If you loath the nuclear weapons so much then tell the gov't and Pak military to stop producing them and discard all the weapons so they don't have to use them. Don't go crazy on me.

 

[dbc]

You established nothing when the fighter was flying blind. The EW systems were switched off and the radar was in training mode. By the time everything is upgraded and the JF 17s are in adequate numbers the IAF will have upgraded Mirage 2000s and MiG 29s. Let alone the SU 30 MKI. Then we might even have a squadron of the MMRCA winner the time J 10Bs are inducted. And give me one good reason why the SU 30 MKI will be more vulnerable in Hostile air space when it is not the vice versa for PAF? Well it is not only the US that has SEAD capabilities...many other countries have them too.

One of the worst maneuvers to perform against an adversary in a nose to nose engagement is a belly up turn (belly perpendicular to adversary radar) and while the widely spaced engines give the MKI an aerodynamic edge it makes it more visible to ground radar. These are some design trade offs and key difference between western and Russian design philosophy. The Russians believe aerodynamic efficiency is worth the trade off while we beleive closely spaced engines present a smaller target to ground radar and allow our planes to take more battle damage while remaining airworthy. Recall the Israeli F-15 that was able to RTB safely with the entire right wing missing after a collision - an MKI in contrast will be unflyable in the same condition. While many here don't look beyond engine thrust, experts factor engine footprint - length and diameter. Russian engines especially the ones with TVC nozzles are longer and wider. The F-414 engine is 154/35 inches while the MKI's AL-31 (excluding nozzle) is close to 200/50 inches. The MKI presents a much larger target for all the reasons I mentioned above and more.

You established nothing when the fighter was flying blind. The EW systems were switched off and the radar was in training mode.

All participant radars were in training mode not just the MKI's. The MKI's took more SAM hits at Nellis than anyone else. I often hear, the radar was turned off, EW was off, chaff and flares were not used - if this was the case;what was the point of going to Red Flag?

As for Indian SEAD capability? Tell me more..