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JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 3]

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This was posted by Crobato, a very senior Chinese member renowned for his expert opinions and analysis. His analysis of an article published by Chinese magazine are as follows:

Some of the highlights on the test pilot article.

"The maneuverability has a profound effect on me. This is one extremely nimble plane". He says when you pull the stick on the J-7, you can only pull it gradually so you can hold the proper angle of attack. The radius of turn is wide and the maneuverability is not good. On the FC-1, if you pull the stick, you can pull all the way in and get a very big instantaneous turn rate. Due to a quad Fly-by-wire, turn rate of this fighter is just remarkable. (something we witnessed in squadron induction ceremony)
Then the Chinese pilot asked PAF pilot how JF-17's maneuverability compares with F-16? PAF pilot said jf-17 maneuvers better. Then, PAF pilot asked Chinese pilot (who flew F-16 in UK before) the same question, he said they are probably similar. Then, he also said that this maneuverability is just for when it is horizontal and that F-16 is still slightly better for vertical (climb rate) due to superior T/W ratio. Then he talked about the cockpit with the 1 HUD and 3 MFDs. He said that it's like the ones on Gripen and F-18. The MFD gives pilots a really easy interface to work with. each one has 20 buttons to select different information. This allows the pilot to keep his head on flying the aircraft. Then he talked about how China's cockpit and MFD is much further ahead than the Russian ones and the Russians were surprised.

He says or agrees that the FC-1 has superior horizontal maneuverability over the F-16A (maneuvering in the horizontal plane). However due to inferior thrust to weight ratio, the F-16 still has the advantage on the vertical plane.
Avionics are very advanced and pilot workload is easier than any Chinese or even Russian plane at the moment. When compared to the Su-27, the FC-1's horizontal maneuverability easily holds its own, but the vertical maneuverability is inferior than the Flanker. Again thrust to weight ratio is the reason. The FC-1 cannot compare to the Su-27's ultra maneuverability aspects. He explains something here, which is interesting for people to learn. On a mechanically controlled plane like the J-7, you cannot pull the stick all the way through. At transonic speeds, on a delta winged aircraft, the delta can only use a small angle of attack. Once you pull past that limit, you will lose speed, and with it, lift, and the nose of the aircraft goes down. On a fly by wire plane such as the jf-17, you cannot have this problem because the FBW computer processes the inputs and carefully controls the angle of attack.
 
This is an old payload pic of thunder, notice triple rack for bombs and MRAAMS on wingtips.

 
It is a South Africa photo. The poster behind the missile say, "UMKHONTO" = spear. It is a South Africa surface-to-air version of the R-Darter, meant to be fired from ships. You can even see a ship in that poster.

I am in no way saying PAF is not make it own version - just that the particular photo shown is likely a Denel exhibition of the Umkhonto missile.

Thanks.
I have told many whose messages I received that I saw South Africans working in Pakistan. Having a poster in a work place is in no way and form suggests or proves that where the picture is from. This particular picture was taken by me while on a tour of PAF facility. Many posts on the subject here are nothing but an attempt to dig and redig old stuff which has been argued about hundreds of time.

I am not a keyboard warrior and do not try to engage in speculative opinions to satisfy my ego. I am here to learn from many who exhibit maturity and common sense even though their opinions may not be similar to mine. Over the years, I have contributed by posting information, which later turned out to be true. Even then apprehension was expressed by some whose sole sourse of information is a computer screen and a link.
 
I would put 100% credibility in Pshamim Post (He is ex-PAF Pilot Tempest and plays a major role in PAF procurement policy).On a side note, a lot of classified is being declassified on def.pk.
 
☪☪☪☪;938934 said:
I would put 100% credibility in Pshamim Post (He is ex-PAF Pilot Tempest and plays a major role in PAF procurement policy).On a side note, a lot of classified is being declassified on def.pk.

If you are saying that our Ex PAF Folks are spilling out info on this forum that they are not supposed to post then let me tell you that how wrong you are.

People on this forum and others around have spent their lives serving this country and creating those items that we refer to as classified.

These people are those who create these classified items so they are aware what they are doing and what is needed to be publicized and what is not.

Moreover There are alot of people on this forum who keep a close watch on the info posted on this website and anything suspicious gets deleted the next second if posted.

Cheers.
 
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I have told many whose messages I received that I saw South Africans working in Pakistan. Having a poster in a work place is in no way and form suggests or proves that where the picture is from. This particular picture was taken by me while on a tour of PAF facility. Many posts on the subject here are nothing but an attempt to dig and redig old stuff which has been argued about hundreds of time.

I am not a keyboard warrior and do not try to engage in speculative opinions to satisfy my ego. I am here to learn from many who exhibit maturity and common sense even though their opinions may not be similar to mine. Over the years, I have contributed by posting information, which later turned out to be true. Even then apprehension was expressed by some whose sole sourse of information is a computer screen and a link.

If you say you took the photo believe you! I had assumed you had received it from someone who got it from someone else! Thanks.

Now one question from me: CAN THE F-7 some these MRAAMs? I have seen many indicators/suggestions that they can but a source such as yourself would really have me convinced 100%.

Thanks.
 
☪☪☪☪;938934 said:
I would put 100% credibility in Pshamim Post (He is ex-PAF Pilot Tempest and plays a major role in PAF procurement policy).On a side note, a lot of classified is being declassified on def.pk.

Thanks for your trust. Some of us are aware of though not officially privy to many projects. We never divulge any classified item. Information released in most instances are sourced to PAF, PN or PA who know it will be later posted on net.
 
☪☪☪☪;938934 said:
I would put 100% credibility in Pshamim Post (He is ex-PAF Pilot Tempest and plays a major role in PAF procurement policy).On a side note, a lot of classified is being declassified on def.pk.

Thanks. I stand corrected!
 
Which MRAAM/BVRAAM good for JF-17?:undecided:
SD-10
R-DARTER
MICA.
 
Hi,

It has a long ways to go---as I stated----2---3 years time will bring out what this plane is capable of.

There is a big difference in what I am saying and what most others talk about---.

I am concerned about what I had yesterday to fight my today's war---you people talk about what you are going to get tomorrow---.

You may buy office equipment and clothings in that manner---but weapons systems require a different approach and understanding to procure.

Yeah...u r rite...because if we talk abt the info available on net, which says that we only have VVRs and not BVR's, and indian AF have 3 BVR platforms MIG-21 Bison, SU-30MKI and M2000, so your concerns are rite because jets with VVR's are like sitting ducks against BVR capable jets, so u r rite, but if u see we were leading south asia till 1990 in economy growth, but after 1990 pakistan's economy started falling and indian economy gained momentum, they crossed our GDP per capita, so i think we were facing bad financial crisis + corruption + sanctions in 1990's, PAF was not getting good financial package, so they spend their major chunk of money for the maintenance of old jets.
 
I have the honor to have learned a lot of info from knowledgeable folks such as Sir Parvez Shamim, Sir Murak K, Usman Shabbir, Munir, Haris Khan and many more and i am ever thankful to them all for their valuable contribution.
 
I mentioned about reduced RCS of thunder, the addition of DSI have done marvels in this domain and it gives away a very low RCS specially from front since the engine blade is not visible even in pics.

Even if the air intakes would be bigger, the engine blades shouldn't be visible, all actual single engine fighters uses S-, or Y-ducts before the engine and I guess that is not different with JF 17 or (maybe someone has a cutaway, or graphic that shows it)?
However, that is only one part of the RCS, other points like size of the fighter, integrated RAM-, or other materials are important too.
 
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