JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 3]

[jagjitnatt]

Hi
If JF-17 can get a long range radar along with long range BVRM then i don't see a reason why it wont be worthy opponent to so called 4.5 gen fighters

But the same can be done to Mig21/29 too. It won't make it 4.5 gen.

Along with the offensive aids, it also needs defensive aids.

 

[Peregrine]

But the same can be done to Mig21/29 too. It won't make it 4.5 gen.

Along with the offensive aids, it also needs defensive aids.

Hi
so who said you cannot? isn't mig 35 based on mig 29, but this discussion is off topic so limit your scope of discussion to JF-17 only . why JF-17 needs the certificate for being a 4.5 gen when it can easily take care of so called 4.5 gen jets

 

[jagjitnatt]

Hi
so who said you cannot? isn't mig 35 based on mig 29, but this discussion is off topic so limit your scope of discussion to JF-17 only . why JF-17 needs the certificate for being a 4.5 gen when it can easily take care of so called 4.5 gen jets

Don't you think it would be even easier for the 4.5 gen jet to take out JF-17?

Don't exaggerate its capabilities. Comments like these are the only reason I have to type long posts describing logically why JF-17 is not the ultimate plane, and then I am labeled a troll.

 

[Cent4]

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JF-17's avionics

it is the best video i have ever scene regarding JF-17.
I would appreciate if senior members could comment on this video

 

[sancho]

Hi
so who said you cannot? isn't mig 35 based on mig 29, but this discussion is off topic so limit your scope of discussion to JF-17 only . why JF-17 needs the certificate for being a 4.5 gen when it can easily take care of so called 4.5 gen jets

Then lets clear it up a bit:

Aircraft classified as fourth-generation jet fighters are those in service approximately from 1980 to 2010, representing the design concepts of the 1970s. Fourth-generation designs are heavily influenced by lessons learned from the previous generation of combat aircraft. Representative fighters include the "teen" series of American fighters (F-14, F-15, F-16 and F/A-18), Chinese fighters J-10 and J-11, as well as the Soviet MiG-29 and Su-27. The growing costs of military aircraft in general and the demonstrated success of multi-role aircraft such as the F-4 Phantom II gave rise to the popularity of multi-role fighters. Long-range air-to-air missiles, originally thought to make dogfighting obsolete, proved less influential than expected; designers responded with a renewed emphasis on maneuverability.

The rapid advance of microcomputers in the 1980s and 1990s permitted rapid upgrades to the avionics over the lifetimes of these fighters, incorporating system upgrades such as AESA, digital avionics buses and IRST. Due to the dramatic enhancement of capabilities in these upgraded fighters and in new designs of the 1990s that reflected these new capabilities, the designation 4.5th generation is sometimes used to refer to these later designs. It is intended to reflect a class of fighters that are evolutionary upgrades of the 4th generation to incorporate integrated avionics suite, advanced weapons and elements of stealth technology (though not true stealth capability).[1][2]

So JF 17 block 1 and 2 (with western package) will be 4th gen fighters, because their design is mainly based on older gen fighters, does not incorporate much stealth features in design, or materials, will not have AESA radar, or IRST. Only the block 3 upgrades will bring it to 4.5 gen level.

 

[farhan_9909]

So JF 17 block 1 and 2 (with western package) will be 4th gen fighters, because their design is mainly based on older gen fighters, does not incorporate much stealth features in design, or materials, will not have AESA radar, or IRST. Only the block 3 upgrades will bring it to 4.5 gen level.

let me tell you jf-17 Block II will be a true 4.5th generation aircraft.
it will hav AESA radar(italian already offered bt we refused as per chineese news Italian New radar Vixen 1000ES the one which is in development for gripen and if nt then china AESA radar which is in developments)

who told you that its design is on older aircraft.
what is the difference between F-15 silent eagle and f-15 avionics and little airframe modification make it semi stealth..f-18 and f-18 SH
f-16 and block 60 one

block II will hav IRST and greater composite material will be used..

you can check in wikipedia the planned upgrade for jf-17 and it clearly say that the upgrade will for the after 50 aircraft.
as it is known that

first 50 aircraft are for A2G role so A2G doesnt need a long range radar nor they need a BVR..

after 50 the otehr jf-17 will be for A2A role and will hav AESA,100KN engine,greater use of composire materal,modification in airframe to reduce RCS,IRST and some more upgrades

 

[mughaljee]

I see.
Its great price wise. Great for replacing the old fleet of mirages.
It is a great jump from 3rd gen aircraft. It brings true BVR capability to Pak. Also SD10 missiles would be great jump from previous systems.

Precision bombing is another feat due to its datalinking capability.

It is cheap so can be mass produced. Another advantage is that it can be assembled in Pak itself. Even repair won't be a big deal. Even incase of sanctions you'll not have problems, not to mention the jobs it will create in Pak.

jagjitnatt G
Tussee Gr8 G.

 

[sancho]

let me tell you jf-17 Block II will be a true 4.5th generation aircraft.
it will hav AESA radar(italian already offered bt we refused as per chineese news Italian New radar Vixen 1000ES the one which is in development for gripen and if nt then china AESA radar which is in developments)

who told you that its design is on older aircraft.
what is the difference between F-15 silent eagle and f-15 avionics and little airframe modification make it semi stealth..f-18 and f-18 SH
f-16 and block 60 one

block II will hav IRST and greater composite material will be used..

you can check in wikipedia the planned upgrade for jf-17 and it clearly say that the upgrade will for the after 50 aircraft.
as it is known that

first 50 aircraft are for A2G role so A2G doesnt need a long range radar nor they need a BVR..

after 50 the otehr jf-17 will be for A2A role and will hav AESA,100KN engine,greater use of composire materal,modification in airframe to reduce RCS,IRST and some more upgrades

PAF is trying to get a French package for the second batch of 100 JF 17, but this does not include AESA radars, nor IRST that is what really is known so far. Many other things like composites, new engines and stuff are speculated, but even many Pakistani members expected these changes only for the Block 3.

Regarding F15 SE, it is an 4. gen design that was upgraded to 4.5 with latest avionics, RCS reductions, just like JF 17 block 1 will be 4.5 gen when it gets similar upgrades in future.
However, by that definition (US definition btw, Russians and Europeans count fighters with PESA radars also as 4.5 gen) JF 17 is a 4th gen fighter, just like F16 B52,, J10A, Gripen C/D, Mirage 2009, or LCA MK1.

 

[Peregrine]

Don't you think it would be even easier for the 4.5 gen jet to take out JF-17?

Don't exaggerate its capabilities. Comments like these are the only reason I have to type long posts describing logically why JF-17 is not the ultimate plane, and then I am labeled a troll.

Hi
no one is exaggerating anything at all didn't i specifically mentioned if it gets long range radars & long range BVRMs? it is not the talk about capabilities but the way you twist statements gets you labeled as a troll.

 

[jagjitnatt]

Hi
no one is exaggerating anything at all didn't i specifically mentioned if it gets long range radars & long range BVRMs? it is not the talk about capabilities but the way you twist statements gets you labeled as a troll.

This is what you said sir

why JF-17 needs the certificate for being a 4.5 gen when it can easily take care of so called 4.5 gen jets

This is the part I called exaggeration.

 

[Peregrine]

Then lets clear it up a bit:



So JF 17 block 1 and 2 (with western package) will be 4th gen fighters, because their design is mainly based on older gen fighters, does not incorporate much stealth features in design, or materials, will not have AESA radar, or IRST. Only the block 3 upgrades will bring it to 4.5 gen level.

Hi
please clear this up first

Who has claimed that JF-17 is 4.5 gen?

as for the info i am very much aware of what JF-17 can have or not definitely not reliant on Indian sources for that

 

[farhan_9909]

PAF is trying to get a French package for the second batch of 100 JF 17, but this does not include AESA radars, nor IRST that is what really is known so far. Many other things like composites, new engines and stuff are speculated, but even many Pakistani members expected these changes only for the Block 3.

Regarding F15 SE, it is an 4. gen design that was upgraded to 4.5 with latest avionics, RCS reductions, just like JF 17 block 1 will be 4.5 gen when it gets similar upgrades in future.
However, by that definition (US definition btw, Russians and Europeans count fighters with PESA radars also as 4.5 gen) JF 17 is a 4th gen fighter, just like F16 B52,, J10A, Gripen C/D, Mirage 2009, or LCA MK1.

Internal Infra-Red Search and Track (IRST) system, possibly the Type Hongguang-I Electro-optical Radar (虹光-Ⅰ型光电雷&#36798 developed by Sichuan Changhong Electric Appliance Corporation (currently the IRST must be carried externally).[3][6][7]
copid frm wiki..IRST Will be added for sure bt chineese
french upgrade cacelled so leave it.
so otehr radar option for us are vixen 1000ES or chineese AESA.both are AESA.
ws-13 improced will be ready by 2013..composite material are already used bt next batch will hav greater use of composite material
currents avionics are perfect..

the frist 50 are for A2G role
and for A2A role we will upgrade jf-17 to a good standard of 4.5th generation..

by adding AESA and IRST i am sure we can term jf-17 as true 4.5th generation aircraft,

 

[Peregrine]

This is what you said sir



This is the part I called exaggeration.

hi
It sounds exaggeration to you because you are in denial & there is nothing that i can say to convince you, if you cannot understand the simple fact that why any jet with long range radar & BVRMs be a potent one than enjoy your delusions as if its going to change reality. lol yesterday an indian posted on best capitals thread that Isb has only two tourist destinations & no world class universities, yes your words are very credible as well

 

[jagjitnatt]

hi
It sounds exaggeration to you because you are in denial & there is nothing that i can say to convince you, if you cannot understand the simple fact that why any jet with long range radar & BVRMs be a potent one than enjoy your delusions as if its going to change reality. lol yesterday an indian posted on best capitals thread that Isb has only two tourist destinations & no world class universities, yes your words are very credible as well

If you think JF can easily take out a 4.5 gen fighter, then you're just fooling yourself.

These 4.5 gen planes aren't made of paper you see. If its easy for a 4 gen light fighter to take on a 4.5 gen fighter than tearing down a JF would be piece of cake for the 4.5 gen fighter.

Right now you're sounding just like the Indian you mentioned in your post.

 

[notorious_eagle]

All built up BS stories.
Not a single credible link or source to back you up
Someone said this ,and some one said that, so its true?
JF is modular you can do whatever to it, by that logic why don't you slap on a AWACS radar on to it along with a howitzer?

Your post is full of BS and nothing else.

Give me links or facts to refute my claims. Till then you're just believing a fanboy wishlist.

Honestly you need to stop trolling, your the one whose making asssumptions without any facts. F16 not being tested against the JF17, JF17 not being tested in Excercises and Real Battle. GUESS WHAT, it has been tested and your a liar for making false assumptions.

As far as the sources you are talking about; so far i have quoted all Serving or Ex PAF Officers. But Hey you being an Indian with psychic powers, i think i will take your words over their words. You want authentic international sources about the PAF , Good Luck finding one because the PAF is a very secretive organization. They have never let their intentions known in the media, so good luck finding that. Did you ever read in the media that PAF recieved Darter BVRAAM with full TOT and modified it extensively, same goes for PGM. Did you ever read it in the media that Pakistan is in posession of C803 and C602? No; all of this was a mystery until it was cleared by Ex Service Men on the forums, i will take their word over yours or any other Newspaper in the world.

So do yourself a favour, RESEARCH and stop TROLLING. As Taimi said, stop looking it from an Indian Perspective and look it from a Neutral Perspective.