JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 2]

[mean_bird]

There's no such thing as a twin-engined JF-17. Its just fan-boyism.

 

[Arsalan]

originall posted by adeos amigo:
hummm i think,due to the recent modifications they have transformed to stealth lol. but if there are in peshawar, so they will be flying very soon INSHALLAH, because its expected now taimikhan is also from peshawar,may be he has spoted anyone in the skies but one thing for sure A-5s daily activites have almost come to a hault.

Nops, not a single sighting except a couple of months back when one or two had come for some ceremony kind of thing. A-5s are still in the sky but in very less numbers. Their routine exercises on monthly basis have also been not noticed, definitely something is happening but no JF-17 in the sky for the time being.

strange!!
then where is all that; evaluation and weapon integration taking place,,

assistance required,sir Murad!

regards!

 

[Arsalan]

There's no such thing as a twin-engined JF-17. Its just fan-boyism.

yes, even no plans to go for anything like this!!
JF is to operate with a single engine forever! if ever we see an indegenious twin engine plane, it wont be a JF17 variant and will be of different designation!

regards!

 

[Dazzler]

The above post by mean_bird makes sense because converting a single engined jf-17 into a dual engined one will ask for some MAJOR changes in almost all aspects of the aircraft. Remember the purpose of this aircraft was Low Cost and High Performance. The maintenance will become nothing short of nightmare in case of dual engines. Costs will automatically rise to almost double (maybe even more) and will not be able to serve the purpose it was made for. At the moment, it is a marvelous fighter aircraft which did not show ANY drawbacks during two year trials in Pakistan except for a minor vibration issue which was sought out immediately. Trust me guys, the PAF is very happy with it. So far so good.

 

[schrage musik]

thanks mean_bird and arslan for clearing it up. I think i read that twin engined thing on sinodefence.

Still, I think a major increase in thrust & payload of JF-17 is important to its success, both with the plaaf and for export. A vastly improved thrust will allow it to carry a significant load of a2g ordnance with a bigger amount of external fuel and give it a better TWR for a2a.


It's competition in the market is f16/gripen ng/mig 35 and i don't think that the current jf17 has much chance against such planes in winning an export order.

 

[Dazzler]

Why i said that the jf-17 shows promise even at an early stage. Below is the reason.

Chief Of Air Staff Talks To Media At IDEAS 2008 Defence Exhibition - November 27, 2008 - CrazyMotion!

 

[Adios Amigo]

thanks mean_bird and arslan for clearing it up. I think i read that twin engined thing on sinodefence.

Still, I think a major increase in thrust & payload of JF-17 is important to its success, both with the plaaf and for export. A vastly improved thrust will allow it to carry a significant load of a2g ordnance with a bigger amount of external fuel and give it a better TWR for a2a.


It's competition in the market is f16/gripen ng/mig 35 and i don't think that the current jf17 has much chance against such planes in winning an export order.

well bro totally agree to your views of increased thrust and payload on jf-17, however regarding market compitition with f16/gripen ng/mig 35, you are a bit mistaken. jf-17 is not in competition with either of these plans, rather jf-17 will staisfy the needs of those countries which need affordable and effective fighter,either as replacement of thire old inventory such as mig21 and f-7s or their need for new fighters.The segment jf-17 is focusing on are mostly small developing asian or african countries with small defence spendings,ofcourse their will be few odd exceptions as iran etc. currently the prices of the above mentioned planes are $70 million and above and a jf-17 wil cost some where b/w 18-25 million a piece.Therefore apart from politcal issues it becomes vertually impossible for these small nations to buy those expensive toys specially when they want to buy them in numbers. Basically the target markets of the above mentioned planes and jf-17 are totally different so thier is no competiton b/w them. hope u got the point.
regards.

 

[mean_bird]

thanks mean_bird and arslan for clearing it up. I think i read that twin engined thing on sinodefence.

Still, I think a major increase in thrust & payload of JF-17 is important to its success, both with the plaaf and for export. A vastly improved thrust will allow it to carry a significant load of a2g ordnance with a bigger amount of external fuel and give it a better TWR for a2a.


It's competition in the market is f16/gripen ng/mig 35 and i don't think that the current jf17 has much chance against such planes in winning an export order.

In my opinion, the first things they will/should do to the JF is increase the number of hard-points. This should come as a result of increased thrust on the 'improved RD-93' to somewhere near 90-95kN which had been rumored before when Russia formally allowed the re-export of the engine.

That would probably slightly affect the dimensions of wings and/or tail to counter the extra weight/drag. That's as far as the physical changes to the metal frame is concerned.

Second thing is avionics, which would get more changes including development and integration of a complete EW/ECM suite, possible radar change, full integration of weapons, complete networking with AEW&C, A2A refueling (which probably is already done).

Frankly, I do not see any more changes than this in the near future (second batch). Any hint of a different plan should be visible once they develop a twin-seat version.

 

[Dazzler]

According to Sir Murad, we have already received a lot of equipment for our jf-17 already which also includes a radar because the KLJ-7 is only installed in the first two aircraft. This is great news indeed.

 

[Hunter911]

thankyou for the informative post!

what is that THUNDER 04 written on the plane?? does it refer to prototype 04 or is it from the operational serial produced JF??

and sir munir

is this pic from the "evaluation and weapon integration phase of JF" that we have talked about a lot of times?

regards!

This is a production model.The ultimate version of JF-17 behind the scenes,
PAF Knows the true face of it.

 

[SBD-3]

There's no such thing as a twin-engined JF-17. Its just fan-boyism.

Yap true but twinseater is definitely on cards for PAF ordering and is under development
however, Twin engine version will require a comprehensive redesign so not expected any time sooner

 

[Zarbe Momin]

Actually which we see about JF-17 is that what PAF and China developed in 2003-2005, its my personal opinion now research work on JF-17 Project is much more in advance phases. Hopefully we will see in future because Pakistan disclose things after development very late.

 

[Tempest II]

Self deleted. Had got my facts wrong!

 

[schrage musik]

well bro totally agree to your views of increased thrust and payload on jf-17, however regarding market compitition with f16/gripen ng/mig 35, you are a bit mistaken. jf-17 is not in competition with either of these plans, rather jf-17 will staisfy the needs of those countries which need affordable and effective fighter,either as replacement of thire old inventory such as mig21 and f-7s or their need for new fighters.The segment jf-17 is focusing on are mostly small developing asian or african countries with small defence spendings,ofcourse their will be few odd exceptions as iran etc. currently the prices of the above mentioned planes are $70 million and above and a jf-17 wil cost some where b/w 18-25 million a piece.Therefore apart from politcal issues it becomes vertually impossible for these small nations to buy those expensive toys specially when they want to buy them in numbers. Basically the target markets of the above mentioned planes and jf-17 are totally different so thier is no competiton b/w them. hope u got the point.
regards.

i get your point.

however, i'm pointing out that if a 3rd world country requires a replacement for an old plane like mig21/mirage/f7/f5 the cheapest options are the american F-16, euro Gripen/ Gripen NG, ruskie Mig-35 or chinese jf17/j10. now i don't think the current configuration thunder can compete with f-16 or mig 35 in sensor and weapon capability. the klj-7/sd-10 has no chance against the zhuk-ae/r-77m or the apg-81/aim-120d/aim-9x? Even the RD-93B/RC-400/Mica/upgraded SD-10 combo doesn't quite match up.

Cost is the one and i think only factor favoring the jf17, but customers may prefer the 25mn J-10 over a 20mn JF17, especially once the j-10b version is cleared for export.

that's why i believe the thunder needs a major upgradation in order to be competitive in the export market.

then we've to consider the aircraft it will face post 2015. In a worst case the IAF in 2020 could well have around 240 MKI, 126 FA-18, 50-100 Mirage 2000-9, 60 upgraded Mig 29, upto 100 FGFA and any number of LCA . The JF-17 will have to be good enough to taken on any of these planes.

 

[Tempest II]

i get your point.

however, i'm pointing out that if a 3rd world country requires a replacement for an old plane like mig21/mirage/f7/f5 the cheapest options are the american F-16, euro Gripen/ Gripen NG, ruskie Mig-35 or chinese jf17/j10. now i don't think the current configuration thunder can compete with f-16 or mig 35 in sensor and weapon capability. the klj-7/sd-10 has no chance against the zhuk-ae/r-77m or the apg-81/aim-120d/aim-9x? Even the RD-93B/RC-400/Mica/upgraded SD-10 combo doesn't quite match up.

Cost is the one and i think only factor favoring the jf17, but customers may prefer the 25mn J-10 over a 20mn JF17, especially once the j-10b version is cleared for export.

that's why i believe the thunder needs a major upgradation in order to be competitive in the export market.

then we've to consider the aircraft it will face post 2015. In a worst case the IAF in 2020 could well have around 240 MKI, 126 FA-18, 50-100 Mirage 2000-9, 60 upgraded Mig 29, upto 100 FGFA and any number of LCA . The JF-17 will have to be good enough to taken on any of these planes.

It is interesting that you call F-16s and Gripen NG cheap options for lightweight fighters!

Didn't we get the news a few month ago that the costs of making the JF-17 for PAF is $12m? ... You can add 25% mark-up for selling to everybody else = $15m... or even 50% to make $18m. ... And about 8 weeks ago the price for the J-10A to Egypt was quoted at $30m! i.e. the difference is $15m and not $5m as per your assumptions. You get 2 FC-1s for each J-10.

As it turns out, we don't know what radar is on the JF-17. Do you have the full specification of the APG-81?

I am just trying to pull us away from unqualified statements which after being repeated enough - most people begin to take as facts.