JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 2]

[Zarbe Momin]

Very weel painted, but how it would look with IRST, Air refuling & CFT (confromal fuel tanks).

 

[Owais]

these are really very nice models.
are these models available for sell? at what price?

 

[hj786]

Firstly I love the JF-17/FC-1. It is optimized for low altitude fighting – I believe traditionally most engagements have been at the lower altitudes where it is difficult to be seen (visual and radar) but also better to see the enemy (radar looking up).

However, I have noticed the buzz words for the F-22 and EF-2000 are “high altitude performance”. I know there are different class of aircraft and I look at the as pacesetters. While flying low (and staying low) is good for staying undetected. I therefore believe air warfare is going high altitudes! … … Any thoughts?

I am not trying to compare the F-22 and EF-2000 to the JF-17. Just questioning/discussing if air battles are set to move to higher altitudes?

That is an interesting point. It seems to me that that JF-17 is optimised for medium to low altitude performance as it has a similar wing design to the F-16. Air battles are set to move to higher altitudes, but is this allowed by modern airframe designs or modern high performance engines?
The modern delta-wing airframes are designed for high altitude supersonic+subsonic performance, but they still require high performance engines to take advantage of this.
We can say the JF airframe is clearly designed for medium altitude performance like the F-16, but with more powerful engines could it also become a potent high altitude performer, able to tangle with some of the latest delta wing designs at high altitude BVR combat?

 

[wangrong]

these are really very nice models.
are these models available for sell? at what price?

i don't know

 

[Munir]

Air battles are set to move to higher altitudes, but is this allowed by modern airframe designs or modern high performance engines?
The modern delta-wing airframes are designed for high altitude supersonic+subsonic performance, but they still require high performance engines to take advantage of this.
We can say the JF airframe is clearly designed for medium altitude performance like the F-16, but with more powerful engines could it also become a potent high altitude performer, able to tangle with some of the latest delta wing designs at high altitude BVR combat?

I do not think that with good SAMS and AWACS you will stay up and high... It is low and fast.

 

[nightrider_saulat]

This would be a dream for PAF, but I think this cant be so easy but ofcourse its not imposible.
Coz
1) JF -17 Black A (First 50) Would be using RD93 engine anc chinees radars like KLJ-7 radar and avoinics. But in Block B (next 50 or 100) and Block C (100 or 150) would be using western Engine, Radars , Avonics. So it would be hard to get production support for Block B anc C.

2) CAIC might be already having too load coz they are working on J-10B, J-11B, J11C, J14. So annual 25 aircrafts may be not easy.

---------- Post added at 03:43 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:42 AM ----------

Beyond the initial 50 PAF JF-17, the remaining production aircraft may also be equipped with European avionics, radars and weaponry. Pakistan had begun negotiations with British and Italian defence firms over potential avionics and radars for JF-17 during initial development. Some of the radar options for JF-17 are the Italian Galileo Avionica Grifo S7 [32] and the French Thomson-CSF RC400 (a variant of the RDY-2), along with the MBDA MICA IR/RF short/medium range air-to-air missiles.[31] The Vixen 500E AESA radar has also been offered to the PAF for installation on the JF-17 by the British company SELEX, but the PAF may be looking for a more advanced AESA radar.[5]

Referenced by weki

SO I CAN NOW CONCLUDED FROM YOUR SEARCH THAT FIRST INITIAL BATCH OF JF-17 BLOCK I WOULD COMPRISES OF 50 PIECES
AND THAT WOULD TAKE 5 YEARS FROM NOW TO BE INDUCTED IN PAF
THAT'S SO SLOW!
I THOUGHT IT WOULD TAKE ONLY TWO YEARS FROM NOW​

 

[nightrider_saulat]

Helmet-mounted display (HMD) will also be installed on the JF-17.

IS HE A PAF PILOT?​

 

[Tempest II]

That is an interesting point. It seems to me that that JF-17 is optimised for medium to low altitude performance as it has a similar wing design to the F-16. Air battles are set to move to higher altitudes, but is this allowed by modern airframe designs or modern high performance engines?
The modern delta-wing airframes are designed for high altitude supersonic+subsonic performance, but they still require high performance engines to take advantage of this.
We can say the JF airframe is clearly designed for medium altitude performance like the F-16, but with more powerful engines could it also become a potent high altitude performer, able to tangle with some of the latest delta wing designs at high altitude BVR combat?

I do not think that with good SAMS and AWACS you will stay up and high... It is low and fast.

Thanks hj786. Thanks Munir.

I agree the engines have to be good at those heights. ... ... I believe also the wing loadings have to be low, i.e. you need a lot of wing area.

Yes Munir I agree on the "low and fast" as the traditional approach. What I looking at is the two most advanced fighters that are operational today have emphasis on high altitude! ... .. What does that tell you? ... ... I am not sure what to think.

 

[Munir]

You mean F22 and MKI?

The F22 is a dead meat at low level cause it needs the sats, kinetic energy and disance (stealth) to make a win... But to be honest the F22 is a dead concept cause there are several methods to get it killed. The Chinese know that end have developed more then a few to counter it. If you want to know... If F22 flies anywhere over UK they know exactly where it is. Only by monitoring background noise... (radar).

I think with low and fast you are safe in northern area where there are enough oppertunities to hide. And with some important citied up there the main battle will either begin or end there... Staying low is having ground clutter, hills, low altitude sams at your disposal... No enemy will risk its MKI to make you land...

 

[Tempest II]

I am not questioning the stealth. I agree with you though - I believe the decision to fund more Growlers at the expense of F-22s says a lot!

 

[Arsalan]

Not a chance!!! This is unrealistic thinking!!! We will be lucky to have the Bl;ock 2s start production by 2015.Persoanlly I think we will only have 50-75 aircrafts by 2015
Araz

sir the project is moving forward at a far faster pace then you consider it to be!! the block I of the firdt 50 JF17 will be completed by the last quater of 2010 at max! however i dont have enough info about the blocj II and i guess there will be a break in production once the blk I is done as PAF will want some modifications to be carried out and they are all discussed in detail!
but sir jee, be sure that the first 50 will be here with us by last quater of 2010!

regards!

 

[Arsalan]

SO I CAN NOW CONCLUDED FROM YOUR SEARCH THAT FIRST INITIAL BATCH OF JF-17 BLOCK I WOULD COMPRISES OF 50 PIECES
AND THAT WOULD TAKE 5 YEARS FROM NOW TO BE INDUCTED IN PAF
THAT'S SO SLOW!
I THOUGHT IT WOULD TAKE ONLY TWO YEARS FROM NOW​

sorry to say this friend but that sounds stupid! i am not trying to offend you but this is how i find it to be!
in five years we are going to have almost 150 planes flying in PAF colors! we are going to produce them at a apace of 25 per year here in Pakistan and have the option to get them from china aswell as they are not currently going for export market. this means 50+ planes per year!
the first block will be completed by the last quater of 2010, we will be having some 20 planes by the end of this year and the rest will be made next years in Pakistan with a few bieng manufacture in china as well!
i hope this make the situation clear!
this is about the block 1. after the block one there may be a small break in production as the block 2 specs may not be finalized by end of 2010 and may take some time but once we are done with it, it will take three to four years to make the next two block ie 100 planes! all this sums up to 150 planes in four to five years!

dude the project is going at a fair pace and is surely to increse it in nect two years time!

regards!

 

[wangrong]

From this model JF-17 looks to be carrying :

2* WVRAAM
4* BVRAAM

Two external fuel tanks

One or two LGB under belly or air intake

 

[Sinnerman108]

That is a MIG 21 !
how are u drawing a symmetry with JF-17 ?

 

[TaimiKhan]

From this model JF-17 looks to be carrying :

2* WVRAAM
4* BVRAAM

Two external fuel tanks

One or two LGB under belly or air intake

This is a russian Mig-21, and the missiles resembles AA-8 A2A missile with a 7KM range.

Dude, there is a hell of a diff between a JF-17 & Mig-21