Old thread: https://defence.pk/forums/showthread.php?t=3978
Last edited:
JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 1]
- Thread starter Neo
- Start date
- Status
JANE'S DEFENCE WEEKLY - APRIL 04, 2007
Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mahmood Ahmed: Pakistan's Chief of Air Staff
Farhan Bokhari JDW Correspondent
Islamabad
'We want an avionics package of our own choice on the J-10'
The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) is undergoing a transition, positioning itself to acquire some of the latest versions of the US-built F-16 multirole fighter aircraft while increasing its reliance on China as a key supplier of hardware through the induction of the JF-17 'Thunder' fighter and future plans to acquire the J-10 fighter aircraft. Pakistan's reliance on China reflects something of a fail-safe philosophy following Islamabad's experience of sanctions imposed on the country in the 1990s.
Against this background, PAF Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mahmood Ahmed aims to maintain his fighter fleet at a strength of 400 aircraft, including the induction of new aircraft from China and the US.
"We might end up buying another high-tech aircraft from the Chinese; the J-10 is something we're looking at along with the JF-17, which will in fact form the backbone of the Pakistan Air Force in the future," said ACM Ahmed. The PAF has received its first two JF-17s and these flew at the country's Resolution Day ceremony on 23 March in Islamabad. The service expects to receive a total of eight or nine JF-17s by the end of this year, although formal induction into the PAF will begin in just under two years. ACM Ahmed said the PAF had increased its initial target of buying 150 JF-17s to acquiring up to 250 aircraft. The future development of the JF-17 will allow Pakistan to induct its own choice of avionics and weapons already in stock.
"The shape of the JF-17 you see today is slightly different from the first prototype. We have added aerodynamic variations to make it more versatile and more manoeuvrable. We now hope that this particular shape will reflect the final configuration and we'll add the other capabilities of the aircraft," said ACM Ahmed. The JF-17 programme has not been without controversy, mainly surrounding the status of the aircraft's Russian-built RD-93 engine. A number of reports during the past three years claimed that Russia had not approved the re-export of the RD-93 engines from China to a third country - in this case Pakistan. The arrival of the two JF-17s equipped with the RD-93 engines has, however, confirmed what Western analysts are beginning to understand: that the Russians may have given verbal agreement to the re-export without issuing formal licences. According to Western defence analysts, the transaction may have been conducted in this manner as Russia is reluctant to annoy India, with which it has had a long-term partnership in defence sales. India, the analysts argue, has quietly lobbied to block the engine sale as a way of disrupting supplies to Pakistan.
"Frankly, the engine issue is between the Russians and the Chinese. We haven't contracted with the Russians on this so the deal is between Russia and China and we have no issues related to this," said ACM Ahmed, adding that "there have been efforts to impede progress by creating some road blocks in this particular path, but I don't think they will work". For the moment, the ACM is content with plans to buy a mix of new F-16 Block 50/52 C/Ds (an initial 18 and an option for an additional 18) and some 26 older F-16A/B models, under an agreement with Washington that gives Pakistan the status of a non-NATO US ally. This effectively means that Pakistan can be supplied with excess defence equipment where there is no cost involved for the platform but Islamabad is required to pay for upgrades.
The acquisition of the F-16A/B models has recently been the subject of some controversy. While the US Air Force is willing to release 12 of its older F-16s, the US Navy has refused to release up to 14 aircraft designated for Pakistan. ACM Ahmed said this could change the number of used F-16s that Pakistan plans to purchase, but the plan to buy a mix of new and used F-16s remained on track. "I am quite hopeful that the US Air Force will be able to release the 12 aircraft but we are not sure of the US Navy - we are working with them but we are not sure if they will release those aircraft for us," he said. "If they don't, the US Air Force will probably look at other aircraft in their inventory. They have a large number of A/Bs which could be made available."
For the future, the PAF is positioning itself to buy up to two squadrons of Chinese J-10 fighters as it seeks to diversify its inventory of top-of-the-range aircraft. ACM Ahmed said negotiations for the purchase have begun, with the PAF outlining its preference for avionics and weapon systems. "We want an avionics package of our own choice on the J-10. The kind of weaponry and various other pods and electronic warfare suites [the aircraft will carry] is another area [under discussion]," he said.
Additionally, the PAF has been in negotiations with Beijing for the future purchase of Chinese-built airborne early warning (AEW) aircraft. While declining to specify which specific Chinese AEW is under consideration, ACM Ahmed noted: "We have tested and evaluated [the AEW aircraft] and [found it to be] fairly good, but there are areas where we definitely want improvement, both in the platform and radar."
Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mahmood Ahmed: Pakistan's Chief of Air Staff
Farhan Bokhari JDW Correspondent
Islamabad
'We want an avionics package of our own choice on the J-10'
The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) is undergoing a transition, positioning itself to acquire some of the latest versions of the US-built F-16 multirole fighter aircraft while increasing its reliance on China as a key supplier of hardware through the induction of the JF-17 'Thunder' fighter and future plans to acquire the J-10 fighter aircraft. Pakistan's reliance on China reflects something of a fail-safe philosophy following Islamabad's experience of sanctions imposed on the country in the 1990s.
Against this background, PAF Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mahmood Ahmed aims to maintain his fighter fleet at a strength of 400 aircraft, including the induction of new aircraft from China and the US.
"We might end up buying another high-tech aircraft from the Chinese; the J-10 is something we're looking at along with the JF-17, which will in fact form the backbone of the Pakistan Air Force in the future," said ACM Ahmed. The PAF has received its first two JF-17s and these flew at the country's Resolution Day ceremony on 23 March in Islamabad. The service expects to receive a total of eight or nine JF-17s by the end of this year, although formal induction into the PAF will begin in just under two years. ACM Ahmed said the PAF had increased its initial target of buying 150 JF-17s to acquiring up to 250 aircraft. The future development of the JF-17 will allow Pakistan to induct its own choice of avionics and weapons already in stock.
"The shape of the JF-17 you see today is slightly different from the first prototype. We have added aerodynamic variations to make it more versatile and more manoeuvrable. We now hope that this particular shape will reflect the final configuration and we'll add the other capabilities of the aircraft," said ACM Ahmed. The JF-17 programme has not been without controversy, mainly surrounding the status of the aircraft's Russian-built RD-93 engine. A number of reports during the past three years claimed that Russia had not approved the re-export of the RD-93 engines from China to a third country - in this case Pakistan. The arrival of the two JF-17s equipped with the RD-93 engines has, however, confirmed what Western analysts are beginning to understand: that the Russians may have given verbal agreement to the re-export without issuing formal licences. According to Western defence analysts, the transaction may have been conducted in this manner as Russia is reluctant to annoy India, with which it has had a long-term partnership in defence sales. India, the analysts argue, has quietly lobbied to block the engine sale as a way of disrupting supplies to Pakistan.
"Frankly, the engine issue is between the Russians and the Chinese. We haven't contracted with the Russians on this so the deal is between Russia and China and we have no issues related to this," said ACM Ahmed, adding that "there have been efforts to impede progress by creating some road blocks in this particular path, but I don't think they will work". For the moment, the ACM is content with plans to buy a mix of new F-16 Block 50/52 C/Ds (an initial 18 and an option for an additional 18) and some 26 older F-16A/B models, under an agreement with Washington that gives Pakistan the status of a non-NATO US ally. This effectively means that Pakistan can be supplied with excess defence equipment where there is no cost involved for the platform but Islamabad is required to pay for upgrades.
The acquisition of the F-16A/B models has recently been the subject of some controversy. While the US Air Force is willing to release 12 of its older F-16s, the US Navy has refused to release up to 14 aircraft designated for Pakistan. ACM Ahmed said this could change the number of used F-16s that Pakistan plans to purchase, but the plan to buy a mix of new and used F-16s remained on track. "I am quite hopeful that the US Air Force will be able to release the 12 aircraft but we are not sure of the US Navy - we are working with them but we are not sure if they will release those aircraft for us," he said. "If they don't, the US Air Force will probably look at other aircraft in their inventory. They have a large number of A/Bs which could be made available."
For the future, the PAF is positioning itself to buy up to two squadrons of Chinese J-10 fighters as it seeks to diversify its inventory of top-of-the-range aircraft. ACM Ahmed said negotiations for the purchase have begun, with the PAF outlining its preference for avionics and weapon systems. "We want an avionics package of our own choice on the J-10. The kind of weaponry and various other pods and electronic warfare suites [the aircraft will carry] is another area [under discussion]," he said.
Additionally, the PAF has been in negotiations with Beijing for the future purchase of Chinese-built airborne early warning (AEW) aircraft. While declining to specify which specific Chinese AEW is under consideration, ACM Ahmed noted: "We have tested and evaluated [the AEW aircraft] and [found it to be] fairly good, but there are areas where we definitely want improvement, both in the platform and radar."
araz
PDF THINK TANK: CONSULTANT
- Joined
- Jun 14, 2006
- Messages
- 9,291
- Reaction score
- 81
i dont think there is anything new here. We have known for some time that Paf thinks the airframe of J10 is very impressive but has a few reservations about the engine and Avionics. To be fair we have always done that. We have taken an aircraft and put Avionics and weapons package of our own choice. I think, indirectly the Chinese allow us to do that as we are their contacts with the western World and bring new ideas into the equation which the Chinese then evolve to their own advantage.So this equation sees its fruitition in JF17 , the Chinese AWACS, and probably also J10.
The PAF present thinking seems to be to wait for the J10 to evolve a bit more, unless the F16 deal turns sour.
The thing to consider are what upgrades does the PAF want specifically.
1. AESA radar is a definite possibility.
2. Precision guidance Air to ground munitions.
I am sure other members will add to this list.
Regards
Araz
The PAF present thinking seems to be to wait for the J10 to evolve a bit more, unless the F16 deal turns sour.
The thing to consider are what upgrades does the PAF want specifically.
1. AESA radar is a definite possibility.
2. Precision guidance Air to ground munitions.
I am sure other members will add to this list.
Regards
Araz
Matador
FULL MEMBER
New Recruit
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2007
- Messages
- 31
- Reaction score
- 0
I think the avonic maybe not bad like what you say ,because china
developed so fast ,that in the electronic area we have so less distance
compare to western conutries ,but I think china will also agree to install
another avonic system with western's in J--10 or JF--17.
developed so fast ,that in the electronic area we have so less distance
compare to western conutries ,but I think china will also agree to install
another avonic system with western's in J--10 or JF--17.
BATMAN
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2007
- Messages
- 29,895
- Reaction score
- -28
- Country
- Location
Can you please, cut paste the picture.
I suppose membership is required with 'pakdef.info' to use your link.
melb4aust
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2005
- Messages
- 1,626
- Reaction score
- 0
- Country
- Location
I should have 15 patches in 4 week time and them it goes to the highest bidder.
Ahha.. let me be the 1st
bidder......Lets see who will be next one:bat: ......... if there is any life after death:GUNS: then plzzz bid......and see what happens
Kiddin:biggrin:
I am honoured to be one of those that got the JF17 for my jacket on Le Bourget... Will scan that later...
Muradk
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2006
- Messages
- 2,403
- Reaction score
- 2
Last time I checked I was. and mel you dont have to ask you will get it
su-47
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2007
- Messages
- 2,426
- Reaction score
- 0
Congratulations. I have always enjoyed flying and have respected and envied men who flew. I wish u all the best for the future.
How long have u been in PAF?
Muradk
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2006
- Messages
- 2,403
- Reaction score
- 2
34 years. have flown T-6 Harvard, T-33, F-86, F-104, MirageIII,V. F-6, F-T5, F-7, F-16.
- Status
Similar threads
- Article
