JF-17 Thunder - Information Pool

[DANGER-ZONE]

I am writing a short book on JF-17 Thunder.

Very very Informative man, thank you for your efforts.

 

[PakShaheen79]

@ Najam Khan : A job Well done sir. InshaAllah one day this will be publish as proper book.

 

[fjavaid]

Thanks Areesh, Nabil, Topgun and FJaviad and all others for your compliments. Hopefully by the end of March its remaining chapter & PDF version will be ready


Full FBW gives more control to the computer whereas a mixture of both gives pilots more learning opportunities. JF-17 can have full FBW in future, but that will require some adjustments inside the cockpit too.

For e.g F-16s have an Manual Pitch Override (MPO) switch in the instrumentation panel. The MPO switch is used to take back the control of aircraft from computer. When it is turned-ON, all recovery and High-G maneuvering becomes headache of pilots. In dual seat F-16s, the instructors use it to train young pilots the manual recovery methods...a common dialogue used after pushing the aircraft to extremes is Hey...I'm disoriented!. Then the trainee puts all his efforts to recover aircraft within safe altitude.

Absolutely on target ......
i said cuz i am getting news that "Manual Control system shall be removed from JFT BII, to reduce weight" .....
lets seee wot comes up in BII ......
however it sure reduce a lot of work load from pilot .!!!!

 

[Luftwaffe]

I am writing a short book on JF-17 Thunder. This book will provide detailed information about sensors, avionics, cockpit, aerodynamic design and weapon carrying capability of JF-17. Apart from discussing the aforementioned topic I will discuss some interesting topics such as 'baggage compartment' too

The first 2 (of 8 chapters) are uploaded.Following are the links.

JF-17 Thunder – All round view: Preface


Chapter 1: JF-17 Thunder’s radome/nose design


Chapter 2:JF-17 Thunder’s Aerodynamic Configuration

An excellent start an Informative Book regarding Thunder.

 

[Manticore]

Kindly keep the discussions on the main jft thread , gents
regards

 

[Luftwaffe]

Najam Khan I've sent you PM check it. Meanwhile couldn't hold it so I am posting the link to PDF version Book of Najam Khan although incomplete when Najam completes it I'll re-update it. Your feedback is appreciated if the minor format is right or not.

pass: viper9er
http://www.*************/file/80ms38637cc834k/JF-17 AN ALL ROUND VIEW BY NAJAM KHAN.pdf

Note: the Book is on my Account not uploaded publicly, I will remove it after certain time period and ofcourse if author requests to remove it.

 

[Manticore]

the raising of the 3rd squadron is delayed slightly to around April ..with the blk-II production slated for a june start, expect at least 1 sqdn of the blk-II to be raised by end of this year. so in total there shd be 4 squadrons by end 2012...current production rate is 24/year, set to increase to 30/year in 2013.

i am qouting sir Fatman ,on the numbers of jft and production rate

 

[SBD-3]

H Khan

JF-17 is equipped for Stand-Off Missile (SOM). The weapon is designated as CM-400AKG which is a land-attack variant of C-802. It is also known as CM-802AKG. This missile is heavier than C-802 but it is somewhat shorter.

CM-802AKG is fitted with an imaging infrared seeker (replacing the original radar seeker) plus a datalink. A new blast/fragmentation warhead, better matched to infrastructure targets, has also been added. The missile weighs about 700 kg and has an effective range in the 200-280 km bracket.

Here is a list of weapon platform so far for JF-17

Air-to-Air Missiles: PL-12/SD-10C, PL-5E, MAA-1A, and MAA-1B

Air-to-Ground Missiles: CM-802AKG SOM, and MAR-1 SOD

LGM-JDAMS: LS-6 (Lei Shi 6) 250kg, 500kg, and 750kg

Anti-Ship-Missiles: C-802A 180km range. It made a direct hit at 90km in its first test when fired from JF-17.

JF-17 Related Discussion - 2012

 

[Najam Khan]

Official JF-17 Brochure for year 2010-2011.

 

[Manticore]

----------------------------Gripen ---JF17[blk1]----F16[blk30]

LENGTH [M]----------------14.1---14.0----14.8
WINGSPAN[M]----------------8.4----9.5-----9.8
HIEGHT[M]---------------------4.5----4.8-----4.9
WING AREA [M2]------------30.0---24.5----27.0
THRUST [KN]---------------80.5---84.4---127.0
MAX SPEED -----------------2.0----1.8-----2.0
COMBAT RADIUS[KM]----------800---1352----1500
FERRY RANGE [KM]-----------3200---3000----4000
SERVICE CIELING[M]-------15000--16700---17000
WING LOADING[KG/M2]--------333----370----431
THRUST TO WT--------------0.97---0.99----1.09

the empty wt and total loaded wt is where we have to work on , rest of the parameters are quite similar

JAS 39 GripenC/D-- empty 6,622 kg- max. take-off 12,473 kg
JF-17- empty weight 6,320 kg- max take-off weight 12,700 kg
F-16A/B/C/D - empty 8,273 kg -max. take-off 19,187 lb

Physical
-Lenth 14.33 meter
-height 4.72 meter
-wing span 9.45 meter
-empty weight 6586.26 Kg

Performance
-Max take off weight 12383.28 Kg
-max speed 1.6 at high altitude
-speed at low altitude that is 700 knots = 1.02 mach
-service ceiling 16916.4 meter roughly 17 Km
-maximum engin thrust 8700 Kg .i.e 85 Kn
-ferry range 3481.76 Km

Armamant
-Total Load capacity 3628.8 Kg

hope helped

Apologies if this has been posted before since I have been away for some time. If that is the case, simply delete this thread.

The Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) Kamra has updated its website.​

Check it out at

Pakistan Aeronautical Complex

Notice the updated information about JF-17 Thunder, particularly the thrust-to-weight ratio which is stated to be around 1.01.

Physical
Length 47 ft
Height 15.5 ft
Wingspan 31 ft
Empty Weight 14,520 lb

Performance
Maximum Take Off Weight 27,300 lb

Max Mach No 1.6

Maximum Speed 700 Knots IAS

Service Ceiling 55,500 ft

Thrust to Weight Ratio 1.01 approx

Maximum Engine Thrust 19,180 lb

G Limit +8,-3

Ferry Range 1,880 NM

Armament

No of Stations 07

Total Load Capacity 8000 lb

NBunless this is a mistake) note it states that PAC will have exclusive rights to manufacture 58% of the airframe.

NOW PLUG THE VALUES HERE
Aircraft Comparison





NOTE:
these values are BEFORE the jft presentation slides .. also posted in info pool -- the upgraded specs based on the presentaions are these ...
GENERAL SPECIFICATIONS:
Takeoff distance 450m
Landing distance 750km
Max G >8
Max climb rate 250 m/s
Basic range 1800km
Extended range with drop tanks 3000km
Endurance 3.5 hours
Max load >4000kg
Thrust to weight ratio >1
Number of stations 07
Service ceiling 55,500ft
MAC 1.8
Max takeoff wt 27,300lb
Total load capacity 8000lb

 

[Manticore]

Considering the length

Considering the length: In the image below, the black line are the overall length = 14.3m and the red are the length of the centre tank.

If I crop the picture to the red lines, the length of the plane = 656 pixels. Cropping just the length of the centre tank give 230 pixels.

By proportion 230/656 X 14.3m = 5.01m

Concerning the width of the centre tank - and look like it pretty much fill the space available:

The wingspan is 9m and equal to 617 pixels. If cropped to just the width of the tank I get 40 pixels. 40/617 X 9m = 0.58m

How wide is the RAAD?

Raad can be carried on two inner wing pylons and under fuselage station and this is from an authentic source.

I made an attempt to check the APPROXIMATE wing area and as it happens I can up with exactly 12.22 sqm for the area shown. Making the whole lifting area 24.44 sqm. I am surprised I came this close to the published numbers.

Using pixels I have taken two JF-17 side views and estimated the diameter of the radar dome/cover. I got 850mm from one photo and 880 from another.

Here is how:

• I cropped the photo so I more or less capture the height = 4.77m
• You will notice this gave me 303 pixel
• 303 pixels for 4.77m = 1.574257 cm/pixel
• I then adjusted my cropping tool just to catch the height (diameter) of the radar dome = 56 pixels.
• 56 pixel x 1.57427 cm/pixel = 88.16cm

Allowing for clearances and material thickness I believe the JF-17 could have a radar antena of over 700mm.

This could easily explain how the KLJ-10 meant for the J-10 (700mm diameter) fitted in the JF-17.

Please discuss!!

 

[Manticore]

 

[Manticore]

sir pshamim

What is Pakistan thinking and in what direction it is planning to proceed. Bits and pieces talk about a PAF which is moving into joint design and development of 5th generation aircrafts with China. PAF engineers and pilots have crowded streets of Chengdu and working and training on many projects. Please do not ask me how they can afford all this, I do not have an answer but coming times will provide the answer and bail meout.

I do not think that JF-17 will fade away in next 25-30 years. There is a greal potential that we may see them armed with latest advanced technologies. Though I may not be around see all the progress in that perriod, I am confident that many of you folks will witness that. I also believe that many of you will also see the development and joint production of powerplants like WS-13 and WS-10. We should also see the development of UCAVs which will slowly outnumber the piloted planes and give PAF an advantage over IAF.

I also foresee a very close cooperation with Turkey and Indonesia besides China in developing the UCAV, unmanned combat aircraft and may revive many retired F-7 and F-6s.

three types of UAV that the Chinese have put in service, J-6 UAV UAV J-7 and CK-1

The Chinese have also transformed the very old J-6 in UAV Air-Sol

 

[MastanKhan]

Yes, it s an interesting one. I have looked and thought about it. I even wrote about it and decided not to post.
Maximum take-off weight = 12,700kg
Empty Weight = 6,400kg
Fuel = 2.300kg
There 12,700 – 6,400 – 2,300 = 4,000kg for external stores.
Now, why do they say >4,000kg? My thinking is, if you are going to strike only 500km away, you can choose to put 500kg less internal fuel and carry more bombs. You play with your fuel fraction.
Also, since this is take-off weight, and we are expecting IRF, the plane can load a lot less fuel, take a lot of bombs and take off and then to-up-fuel after take off. I understand that a plane can “fly” with more tonnage than it can “take-off” with. … …??? … … I need collaboration on this, so please comment/correct me.

Hi,

You are absolutely correct----that is the preferred way to take off---full weapons load---minimal fuel for take off and a tanker hovering above to fill you up---.

People don't realize that a lots of fuel is burnt on take off---.

 

[Manticore]

There is no doubt that French avionics that were being negotiated were better in some aspects such as EW scenario and NATO compatibility right away, not to mention the weapons package that would have come with it but the reality is, this package was only for a specialized, dedicated strike variant that would have been inducted no more than 100 units. The price was too high and unlike their usual way, the French were too picky to provide these.

Avionics and radar were two things that consumed most funds and resources. People forget the famous AFM interview in which, AVM Shahid Latif clearly mentioned his trip to China where they inspected J-10 avionics (CAC factory) but they were NOT satisfied with the overall performance. This happened in late 2003-2004. Not only PAF engineers provide western expertise that they learned over the years, but also took assistance from former South African avionics firm, Tecna Corporation (now a part of Denel Dynamics) that helped PAF in integration of glass cockpit environment. JFT had most advanced avionics when it was completed among all Chinese aircrafts, more advanced than early j-10, on par with later j-10A.
interview image below.....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v428/tauseef_1981/afm4.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v428/tauseef_1981/afm5.jpg

here is the tecna corp website....

Tecna Corporation: Defense Products and Technologies > Aerospace


This was the image of proposed glass cockpit by Tecna Corporation, credit goes to Usman Shabbir of Pakdef.info

http://i.imgur.com/n9BoV.jpg