JF-17 Thunder in touble ?

[melb4aust]

that is awsome news finally all the speculation about the JF-17 being inducted into the PAF will come to an end.

HAhahaa well said....dude

 

[melb4aust]

No,its a reverse engineered RD-93 with Russian help. But still making the engine poses a challenge.

Why the hell ru guyz crying over it............just tell me that.......

Either RD-93 or WS-10 does it make any difference. The Thunder's gonaa have both of these ......and there's no problem with any of these to be inducted.

 

[Contrarian]

Its not about Pakistan having JF-17. Its about China having an engine.

 

[con]

Even if the WS-10 is in production,PAF wont start recieving JF-17 with WS-10 right away.
You cannot switch engine so easily. A simple difference like weigth would mean shift of center of gravity. That means the airframe has to be re-tested and possible changes made.

That means atleast a year of additional work. It is one thing having a engine and another to use it on a productional aircraft.

If WS-10 was in production why is Pakistan not waiting for JF-17 with WS-10? Why take JF-17 with possible sanctionable RD-93?

 

[Adux]

con,

what if WS-10 in actuality is the RD-93, Chinese do have a history on that regard

 

[con]

con,

what if WS-10 in actuality is the RD-93, Chinese do have a history on that regard

well that begs the questions,if WS-10 is a mirror of RD-93,why take so long to use it on JF-17? There seems to be quite a number of JF-17 prototypes,why not use WS-10 on atleast one prototype?

I would assume WS-10 has the same size and possible thrust ratings as RD-93 given Russian invlvement,but other things like weigth and MTBF must be troubling point.

But then I cant say for sure if RD-93 is passed on as WS-10.

China has recieved the whole lot of the ordered RD-93 for JF-17. As farr I personally think that Russian wont easily allow China to export a aircraft with RD-93. Pakistan may not be a problem for the Russian,but trouble starts if the Chinese starts supplying the Syrians and The Iranians.

Russia is not so stupid to shoot it's own foot.

 

[Keysersoze]

Key, its not that it might not be ready. Just there is no news about it. Suddenly a dude posts that "it is ready" lol. What are we supposed to do then?

BTW, undergoing long duration testing means that the project has advanced a lot, but does not mean that it is ready. Even after long duration testing a lot of work has to be done to bring the final production version. It cannot be completed within a 'few months'.

I was understating. The testing was supposed to have started some time at the beginning of last year. There was talk of it being "rushed into service in order to full fill the jF-17 order. However it looks like it was never a issue.

well that begs the questions,if WS-10 is a mirror of RD-93,why take so long to use it on JF-17? There seems to be quite a number of JF-17 prototypes,why not use WS-10 on atleast one prototype?

I would assume WS-10 has the same size and possible thrust ratings as RD-93 given Russian invlvement,but other things like weigth and MTBF must be troubling point.

But then I cant say for sure if RD-93 is passed on as WS-10.

China has recieved the whole lot of the ordered RD-93 for JF-17. As farr I personally think that Russian wont easily allow China to export a aircraft with RD-93. Pakistan may not be a problem for the Russian,but trouble starts if the Chinese starts supplying the Syrians and The Iranians.

Russia is not so stupid to shoot it's own foot.

Ok I think you should try and look at this from another perspective..........Would India give up....MKI's, a 5th Gen aircraft,assorted ships and subs. etc etc for the sake of 100 engines which will not be an issue as soon as the WS-13 comes online? As for the Syrians and the Iranians....it won't be any of Russia's business as I am sure the Chinese will be supplying their own engine with it.

 

[Adux]

Ok I think you should try and look at this from another perspective..........Would India give up....MKI's, a 5th Gen aircraft,assorted ships and subs. etc etc for the sake of 100 engines which will not be an issue as soon as the WS-13 comes online? As for the Syrians and the Iranians....it won't be any of Russia's business as I am sure the Chinese will be supplying their own engine with it.

So why will Russia make it easier for the Chinese, Russians arent ****;

 

[Keysersoze]

So why will Russia make it easier for the Chinese, Russians arent ****;

Simple.........$'s
Russian's aren't **** but they do like their money. After all why should they make things easier for India? A shared cultural heritage?

 

[Adux]

Simple.........$'s
Russian's aren't **** but they do like their money. After all why should they make things easier for India? A shared cultural heritage?

This has nothing to do with India, WHy would russians help China develop a plane which would try(stress) to take the russians market share. 150 engines is peanuts!!!!!!

 

[EagleEyes]

This has nothing to do with India, WHy would russians help China develop a plane which would try(stress) to take the russians market share. 150 engines is peanuts!!!!!!

Like it or not but that is the reality. Whether WS-13 is RD-93 or not. Pakistan will get the JF-17s with a better or just same as RD-93 engine. From there Pakistan and China will export the plane with WS-13 or RD-93 even if the whole Indian Army and Russian Army lines up on the border. If the engine can be exported to Pakistan (Indias nuclear rival) it can be exported anywhere.

 

[con]

Ok I think you should try and look at this from another perspective..........Would India give up....MKI's, a 5th Gen aircraft,assorted ships and subs. etc etc for the sake of 100 engines which will not be an issue as soon as the WS-13 comes online? As for the Syrians and the Iranians....it won't be any of Russia's business as I am sure the Chinese will be supplying their own engine with it.

No matter how much China buys more than India,Russians can say no becoz of the simple fact that China cannot swtich source,India can.

Russia isn't doing any favour to India,they are doing it for themselves. The reason ,once again, India can give future contracts to some one else.

And what arms have China supplied to Syria and Iran other than some anti-tank missiles and small arms?

 

[EagleEyes]

No matter how much China buys more than India,Russians can say no becoz of the simple fact that China cannot swtich source,India can.

Russia isn't doing any favour to India,they are doing it for themselves. The reason ,once again, India can give future contracts to some one else.

And what arms have China supplied to Syria and Iran other than some anti-tank missiles and small arms?

It is in Russian interest to sell arms to China. Their whole defence industry basically runs on it. China has been locally producing some great technology at home, it doesn't have to rely on Russia. On other hand India cannot do anything to pursue Russia against China, when Russians are too good with bribing the Indians. India doesn't control Russia. Russia controls India. It is only recently that western arms have been opened up for India.

 

[con]

It is in Russian interest to sell arms to China. Their whole defence industry basically runs on it. China has been locally producing some great technology at home, it doesn't have to rely on Russia. On other hand India cannot do anything to pursue Russia against China, when Russians are too good with bribing the Indians. India doesn't control Russia. Russia controls India. It is only recently that western arms have been opened up for India.

Webby,
India does not object to Russian sales to China,but it about the re-export of Chinese arms derived from Russian system against Indian interests is what they object.
Russia sells arms to China with no permission to re-export them. China has made good stride in defence tech,but not matter what the Chinese sites say,they are no where near what the Russians can develop. This is the truth.

Yes Russians bribe the Indians to sell their stuff,but then Indian system sold by the Russians are all customised. RuAF doesn't even have a aircraft similar to Su-30MKI.Even the T-90 what India has is heavily customised,way better than what the Russians field. If this is the case I dont mind the bribe.

And India getting western stuff is not a recent phenonema.It always has certain percentage of western systems. German subs,Bofors,Mirage etc.
India is the largest imported of arms from Israel.

A simple no for the chinese from the russians for rd-93 would not mean chinese will stop buying. The chinese are not loosing anythin. Chinese wil find a alternate for RD-93. It is just that in such a scenario the production of JF-17 would be pushed further.

Will Pakistan not get JF-17? No It is inevitable
Will it get delayed if Russia says no? Yes

check out some interesting points made here on a similar discussion of WAB by Garry
http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/mi...t-batch-jf-17-thunder-china-2.html#post362593

 

[BATMAN]

2012 is 5 years away......during the intervening few years there will be jf-17's J-10's and F-16's. Why take a older design when you can start planning for a whole new generation of aircraft?

Exactly, for the decade 2020 PAF should be thinking and conserving for some thing real advance. In between they should concentrate on JF-17, together with F-16 and mirrages it should be fine for the next decade. though some more mirrages can be seeked.
Really, I don't see any significant difference in the parameters of JF-17 and J-10.