JF-17 Thunder Block III is no match against Rafale

[messiach]

Very generalised. Nothing to comment here.

Is this true? @messiach @Oscar @Bilal Khan (Quwa)

 

[Dazzler]

Is this true? @messiach @Oscar @Bilal Khan (Quwa)

Which parts of the post you have doubts on?

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

Which parts of the post you have doubts on?

KLJ7A better than Spectra

 

[Sulemanms202]

JFT B III ... considering PAF can get them in numbers which will fight along Block 52 and MLUs with PL 15 missiles. I dont see any problems with that. But S 400 is a problem that has to be dealt with by balancing act of purchasing chinese S 300 version or better version

 

[Dazzler]

KLJ7A better than Spectra

KLJ-7A is a radar, while SPECTRA is an EW suite.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

KLJ-7A is a radar, while SPECTRA is an EW suite.

I mean KLJ7A better than RBE 2

 

[mudas777]

The superiority of a next gen fighter is generally established against older gen jets. But with the Rafale and Block-3, both aircraft will employ AESA radars, integrated EW/ECM, BVR, and AEW&C.

In this case, the Rafael's superiority isn't from being a generation ahead, but in terms of its intrinsic performance parameters. So how much additional range can its radar offer? How much farther can it target and fire the JF-17, etc.

That's the problem at hand, and on top of that, the MBDA Meteor is going to be a headache for the PAF. But if you're thinking of a 1:1 match, you'll need the Typhoon with Meteor or Block-72 with AMRAAM-D. The latter is plausible (along with the F-16V upgrade for the existing fleet).

But in the absence of that, the next option the PAF has is double up on the Block-3s and see if it can leverage Western radars to get the Meteor. So the Block 3 isn't as good as the Rafale, but the PAF can field 2-3X the number, and with their own AESA radars and long range BVR, they'll be real issues for the Rafale (not a cake walk), which may force India to not bother.

PAF have got a headache on their hands with the arrival of Rafael's/Meteor combo and sooner we ramp up the production of JF17 is the better option. Am not equating JF17 to Rafael's as there are so many factors and variables and one is meant to be the cheap and light plane while other is a medium category plane and a missile truck bristling with sophisticated avionics.
Regarding getting F16 we need to be realistic and start closing that door sooner then latter and come up with some alternative solution. As US is drawing closer to the India by the day our options with US are diminishing so we can't live in the hope for ever as its a matter of our homeland and security. Our options due to the financial situation are limited but still we need somehow answer to the new issue at hand. F16 may be a favourable alternative but current example of our hello's sitting in the US should be an eye opener for all of us and its not a first occurrence. Lets treat US as an economic partner but not a security guarantor for us.
One fact still is not going to go away and which is the need for having a medium category plane which can face down Rafael. We can increase the production of JF 17 to buy some time for us and play with the numbers game until we decide on the next generation medium category plane as AZM project fruitarian is a long way off. We can't afford to have a dangling, hanging sword in Modi hands on our heads for a foreseeable time.

 

[Kabotar]

You forgot the blk 3 will use pl-15e as the main bvr, and sd-10a as secondary option. So many assumptions in this thread. The RBE-2 AESA is smaller, has less TR elements than the KLJ-7A from what we know so far. The latter is known to have around 1100, while the former is known to have just under 900. SPECTRA is widely overrated in many ways, more so by the Indians who had their love shifted from the fallen MKI to yet to be tested Rafale. No body knows the effectiveness of SPECTRA suite against a high performance AESA radar and under intense EW environment. The so called mighty N011M Bars got owned alright.

Hint, there was a reason why finalizing the specs of blk 3 took three years. As for Sabir Shakir mentioning surprises, PAF has several under its sleeves and some of these are indigenous developed solutions.

But aren't we going to use our own radar solution? And there was news that AESA radar will not available on early builds just like IFR probes on blk2.

 

[Dazzler]

I mean KLJ7A better than RBE 2

KLJ-7A is still being tested and finalized, and it is known to be the bigger, more powerful option for blk 3 compared to LKF-601E air cooled AESA radar. So, the low end option has these specs:

This is the low end version with close to 864 TR modules. The three array version is likely to be selected for blk 3, which covers 300 degree FoV, more than RBE-2 AESA. Not to mention, it can be used as an AEWC solution and guide multiple assets to targets.

As for SPECTRA suite, its effectiveness can be argued in a multi threat dense EW environment, especially against AESA radars, let alone AWACS platforms.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

KLJ-7A is still being tested and finalized, and it is known to be the bigger, more powerful option for blk 3 compared to LKF-601E air cooled AESA radar. So, the low end option has these specs:

This is the low end version with close to 864 TR modules. The three array version is likely to be selected for blk 3, which covers 300 degree FoV, more than RBE-2 AESA. Not to mention, it can be used as an AEWC solution and guide multiple assets to targets.

As for SPECTRA suite, its effectiveness can be argued in a multi threat dense EW environment, especially against AESA radars, let alone AWACS platforms.

But about the range of both Radar of scanning and locking? And the no. Of missiles they can guide in one time?

 

[Khafee]

I mean KLJ7A better than RBE 2

Give it a week max, IA they'll crash it, and we'll know more.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

Give it a week max, IA they'll crash it, and we'll know more.

InshALLAH

 

[Dazzler]

But about the range of both Radar of scanning and locking? And the no. Of missiles they can guide in one time?

RBE-2 PESA was known to track fighter sized targets at 120/130km away. RBE-2AESA is claimed to offer 50% more range. Do the math.
As for kjl-7A, the early version could do 150km but that was rejected, the LKF-601E does 170km with 4 simultaneous engagements. If one source is to be believed, the new KLJ-7A can do around 220km for 5m2 target and could do up to 6 simultaneous engagements.

 

[LKJ86]

But about the range of both Radar of scanning and locking? And the no. Of missiles they can guide in one time?

KLJ-7A is a downscale version of the AESA radar used by J-20, while J-10C is equipped with another downscale version.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

You forgot the blk 3 will use pl-15e as the main bvr, and sd-10a as secondary option. So many assumptions in this thread. The RBE-2 AESA is smaller, has less TR elements than the KLJ-7A from what we know so far. The latter is known to have around 1100, while the former is known to have just under 900. SPECTRA is widely overrated in many ways, more so by the Indians who had their love shifted from the fallen MKI to yet to be tested Rafale. No body knows the effectiveness of SPECTRA suite against a high performance AESA radar and under intense EW environment. The so called mighty N011M Bars got owned alright.

Hint, there was a reason why finalizing the specs of blk 3 took three years. As for Sabir Shakir mentioning surprises, PAF has several under its sleeves and some of these are indigenous developed solutions.

Will the French give their tightly held secrets to the "Natives"?????