JF-17 Thunder Block III is no match against Rafale

[aliyusuf]

You dont need to invest for that as it is available everywhere you can get it from China, Russia, America etc. When something is already there in reasonable price why we should strive for that to waste money..? (Air Marshal Shahid Lateef)

What AM (R) Shahid Lateef meant was for starters that was the correct approach. Taking on too much as a first step would have been counter productive. Case in hand as example, the LCA/Tejas project. But we need to up the ante at some point in our pursuit for self reliance. Depending on others mean that you can never go against their interests at times of potential conflict. So sooner rather than later, we need to have an aviation engine program in parallel to project Azm. Otherwise our options will always remain to be limited and our future programs will always remain to be compromises.

 

[SD 10]

IMHO, we are relying too much on JF-17 Block III, lets be realistic, it will be no match against Rafales. JF-17 is a liteweight aircraft, Rafales is the medium weight. Rafales has more hard points and long range BVR missiles. I think PAF missed the trick, They should have gone for the J-10C for the stop gap. I even doubt J-10C are at par with Rafales.
we all know that F-16 Block 70/72 is at par with Rafale, but we dont have any of those. I am not talking about men behind machine, i am talking about machine vs machine. sure 36 numbers arent that big, but those 36 units can turn the table in air combat. dont forget that S-400 is also coming. we have no answer for it. quoting 27th Feb incident all the time, wont save us from future short comings. we should never underestimate our adversary. thats what indians do. we shouldnt do it, instead find the solution for it . our AZM project is still on paper. it will take some good 15+ years to complete. our current F-16 fleets going to retire in 10 to 12 years. so wheres the stop gap ? its a serious issue. i am sure PAF knows about it. but we didnt see anything solid coming out from PAF. i am not going into financial issues becoz, when we go for battle or war, we should be prepared for it, no matter whats the cost. JF-17 and Rafales are like Apples and Oranges. our only answer and option is F-16 Block 70/72.
senior members on PDF can share some thoughts on this topic.

Calm down. Everything, they possess will be answered in due time. Sit back and relax.

 

[War Thunder]

IMHO, we are relying too much on JF-17 Block III, lets be realistic, it will be no match against Rafales. JF-17 is a liteweight aircraft, Rafales is the medium weight. Rafales has more hard points and long range BVR missiles. I think PAF missed the trick, They should have gone for the J-10C for the stop gap. I even doubt J-10C are at par with Rafales.
we all know that F-16 Block 70/72 is at par with Rafale, but we dont have any of those. I am not talking about men behind machine, i am talking about machine vs machine. sure 36 numbers arent that big, but those 36 units can turn the table in air combat. dont forget that S-400 is also coming. we have no answer for it. quoting 27th Feb incident all the time, wont save us from future short comings. we should never underestimate our adversary. thats what indians do. we shouldnt do it, instead find the solution for it . our AZM project is still on paper. it will take some good 15+ years to complete. our current F-16 fleets going to retire in 10 to 12 years. so wheres the stop gap ? its a serious issue. i am sure PAF knows about it. but we didnt see anything solid coming out from PAF. i am not going into financial issues becoz, when we go for battle or war, we should be prepared for it, no matter whats the cost. JF-17 and Rafales are like Apples and Oranges. our only answer and option is F-16 Block 70/72.
senior members on PDF can share some thoughts on this topic.

Let's be honest, you have no clue what JF-17 Block III is exactly bringing to the table. You also don't know if its gonna be flying around with PL-15 or not.
The original JF-17 and the F-16C/D were also supposedly inferior to US-30MKI the mini awacs? What happened to that?

Stop matching a machine vs machine, that's dumb way of doing it. The aerial combat is not about JF-17 vs Rafael. It's about how the aerial engagement is conducted, approached, and on whose terms. There is a whole environment of sensors up there and Rafael or not, PAF as an edge with its sensors and with its limited airspace to cover.

Stop putting up cheesy titles to attract attention and then starting with IMHO, in your not so HO the title is the first thing which is based on complete dishonesty because you have no clue yet and thats a fact.

 

[LeGenD]

You're underestimating block 3, it will have an AESA radar and could easily be equipped to carry PL-15 missiles, which would be more than a match for the Rafale's Meteor missiles. Of course, there's also the option to purchase Chinese aircraft directly (like J-10s as you said, potentially even 5th gen Chinese aircraft once they become available too).

As for the F-16 fleet, they are still a formidable force in the modern world. They can (and have as well as will) undergo extensive upgrades to boost combat efficiency too.

Don't forget that the IAF can't purchase enough equipment to replace its ageing aircraft either, at least the PAF can mass produce its own to combat such a problem. The IAF on the other hand is unable to.

What kind of seeker PL-15 is equipped with? How have you concluded that it is more than a match for Meteor?

Rafale is equipped with powerful Spectra EW suite by default - components installed in the main frame and electronically integrated within.

What if Rafale is able to spoof PL-15 at extreme ranges? Maximum range is great for bragging rights in discussions but a missile may fall short outside the umbrella of comprehensive sensor coverage.

Rafale is far better aircraft than overhyped junks Su-30 and Su-35.

 

[Yaseen1]

it is better than russian jets but chinese technology is not tested yet against rafale and it can surprise indian airforce as chinese economy is better than france and they are spending more in research and development so pl15 is expected to be much better than meteor bvr

What kind of seeker PL-15 is equipped with? How have you concluded that it is more than a match for Meteor?

Rafale is equipped with powerful Spectra EW suite by default - components installed in the main frame and networked within.

Rafale is far better aircraft than overhyped junks Su-30 and Su-35.

 

[python-000]

So finally india received it first rafale what PAF taking countermeasures for this thread & where is our JF-17 block 3...

 

[Rashid Mahmood]

NEW DELHI: A fresh controversy has erupted over India’s Rafale warplanes deal with France, after Kolkata’s Telegraph newspaper broached on Thursday the possibility of Pakistani pilots having trained on similar planes sold to Qatar.

In a follow up to the news item, NDTV checked up with the French embassy about the claim, which denied that Pakistani pilots had been trained to fly the Rafale planes.

The French ‘clarification’ came after ainonline.com, described by NDTV as an independent media firm which focuses on the aviation sector reported that “the first batch of pilots trained for Qatar in November 2017 were Pakistani exchange officers.”

https://www.dawn.com/news/1475589

 

[LeGenD]

it is better than russian jets but chinese technology is not tested yet against rafale and it can surprise indian airforce as chinese economy is better than france and they are spending more in research and development so pl15 is expected to be much better than meteor bvr

Again, China borrow heavily from Russian aviation technologies and defense applications. China does not have intimate access to the state-of-the-art of WEST in defense-related matters.

Forgive my skepticism about Chinese parity with Japanese technologies, let alone American. Some members are speculating much like Indiots used to.

People mistakenly assume that China have a solid solution for everything. China itself is investing far more in its ballistic missile muscle as a component of its A2/AD framework.

 

[Yaseen1]

china has surpassed russia in many defense products,j20 is much better than russian jets and also their economy is better than russian economy to support research in defense sector,I think u.s also bought iron dome from israel it not means u.s is behind israel in defense technology,china has learned through russian defense equipment in past and now in a position to develop much better equipment on their own

Again, China borrow heavily from Russian aviation technologies and defense applications. China does not have intimate access to the state-of-the-art of WEST in defense-related matters.

Forgive my skepticism about Chinese parity with Japanese technologies, let alone American.

People mistakenly assume that China have a solid solution for everything.

WE are projecting like Indiots here.

 

[Zapper]

Everyone keeps talking about the s400 system. Does anyone know if its ever worked in real combat? We know the s300 has done nothing in Syria. Just interested

If that's the case, your buddies China and Turkey wouldn't have procured the same

 

[GriffinsRule]

Hold your horses dude there is no 'engine' word in my post!!!!!!

Haha sorry, I misread =)

 

[Akasa]

People seem to be forgetting that greater fuel & hardpoint capacity does not necessarily translate to better performance in the air against another aircraft. Whoever has the farthest-looking radar and the longest-ranged missiles has the first-shoot advantage and whoever can use their ECM to blunt the enemy's electronics whilst maintaining kinematic advantages will win the close-range fight.

Rarely, if ever, has an aerial fight progressed to a point where victory or defeat was decided by whomever had the greatest endurance or ability to expend all of his enemy's ammunition.

 

[LeGenD]

china has surpassed russia in many defense products,j20 is much better than russian jets and also their economy is better than russian economy to support research in defense sector,I think u.s also bought iron dome from israel it not means u.s is behind israel in defense technology,china has learned through russian defense equipment in past and now in a position to develop much better equipment on their own

LOL

J-20 demonstrate the fact that China have a decent airframe construction capability and LO principles. However, a jet is the sum of all its parts and even J-20 contain Russian parts and engines - you have little idea.

Furthermore, J-20 are very low in numbers because they are still in prototyping phase. You need to look beyond fancy looks to understand any hardware.

Russian defense industry is very well funded and mature, and a major source of ideas which China heavily borrow from.

You need to evaluate Chinese strength from a wider perspective - Chinese defenses on the whole. Chinese ballistic missiles represent a major component of its power projection and even its A2/AD calculus. This is very telling.

Chinese jets do not have to be individually superior to Russian for China to pack a punch in the battlefield.

 

[Zapper]

There are multiple threads in this regard and there is no need to open another one
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/jf-17-thunder-block-iii-is-no-match-against-rafale.638727/page-3

 

[Maxpane]

@waz

this shows your family background and your upbringing .