JF-17 Thunder as a replacement for Moroccan F-5 & F-1 fleet?

[Luftwaffe]

Why is the DR is that bloody expensive?

I guess you mean Dassault Rafale? don't know but adding $15m more one could get F-35A and its One Generation ahead and stealth, french pride and arrogance?.

 

[Babur Han]

There is allready a Thread about the Moroccan Armed Forces open were I postet allready the Issue with the F-X Procurment ! Royal Moroccan Armed Forces | Page 16

From my Point of View if Morocco will get JF-17, they will go for a Variant which have:

- Stealth Characteristic
- ASEA Radar
- Air refueling Probes
- Avionic and Weapon Systems on western Standard

JF-17 would Morocco not from one Side depend like french or US Platforms will do, if JF-17 will be equippt with turkish made Avionics and Weapon Systems. This Solution offer 4,5 Generation Capabillities with western Technology for an acceptable Price to Morocco and Chance for TOT !

 

[Luftwaffe]

There is allready a Thread about the Moroccan Armed Forces open were I postet allready the Issue with the F-X Procurment ! Royal Moroccan Armed Forces | Page 16

From my Point of View if Morocco will get JF-17, they will go for a Variant which have:

- Stealth Characteristic
- ASEA Radar
- Air refueling Probes
- Avionic and Weapon Systems on western Standard

JF-17 would Morocco not from one Side depend like french or US Platforms will do, if JF-17 will be equippt with turkish made Avionics and Weapon Systems. This Solution offer 4,5 Generation Capabillities with western Technology for an acceptable Price to Morocco and Chance for TOT !

That's like selling Hull/Air Frame-Fuselage that ain't going to happen it would be a shame for PAC/CAC, there isn't much money PAF/CAC would make in selling fuselage/wiring alone. If the idea is not to be dependent on western equipment including weapons like AIM-9X/AIM-120C than what other BVR/WVR are they going to integrate into it because I am unaware of any Turkish origin BVR in active service perhaps in works.

 

[Kompromat]

There is allready a Thread about the Moroccan Armed Forces open were I postet allready the Issue with the F-X Procurment ! Royal Moroccan Armed Forces | Page 16

From my Point of View if Morocco will get JF-17, they will go for a Variant which have:

- Stealth Characteristic
- ASEA Radar
- Air refueling Probes
- Avionic and Weapon Systems on western Standard

JF-17 would Morocco not from one Side depend like french or US Platforms will do, if JF-17 will be equippt with turkish made Avionics and Weapon Systems. This Solution offer 4,5 Generation Capabillities with western Technology for an acceptable Price to Morocco and Chance for TOT !

I am afraid thats a laundry list sir.

 

[Babur Han]

@Luftwaffe & @Aeronaut

Turkey is increasing it's Economic and politic Influence in Sub Saharan Countries and the Acess to these Countries are the Lane at the straght of Gibraltar which is Controlled by GB in the North and Spain Ceuta and Melilla, even Perejil is claimed by Spain ! An Interoperabillity between turkish and moroccan armed Forces could become Neccesary to Counter several Threats in the Region ! From the Geopolitic View it make Sense for Turkey to equipp Morocco with modern Equippment !

 

[Kompromat]

@Luftwaffe & @Aeronaut

Turkey is increasing it's Economic and politic Influence in Sub Saharan Countries and the Acess to these Countries are the Lane at the straght of Gibraltar which is Controlled by GB in the North and Spain Ceuta and Melilla, even Perejil is claimed by Spain ! An Interoperabillity between turkish and moroccan armed Forces could become Neccesary to Counter several Threats in the Region ! From the Geopolitic View it make Sense for Turkey to equipp Morocco with modern Equippment !

I doubt that Turkey is willing to engage in such geopolitics so far away from its borders.

However if Turkey wants to work with Pakistan to equip its future allies with JF-17s and Turkish subsystems, theoretically it is a plausible solution.

 

[Luftwaffe]

@Luftwaffe & @Aeronaut

Turkey is increasing it's Economic and politic Influence in Sub Saharan Countries and the Acess to these Countries are the Lane at the straght of Gibraltar which is Controlled by GB in the North and Spain Ceuta and Melilla, even Perejil is claimed by Spain ! An Interoperabillity between turkish and moroccan armed Forces could become Neccesary to Counter several Threats in the Region ! From the Geopolitic View it make Sense for Turkey to equipp Morocco with modern Equippment !

I Agree but that it should be western equipment, I highly doubt PAC/CAC that manufactures JF-17 would just offer/sell Fuselage and parts to Morocco with almost non profit. PAC believes in their work they are working hard to make it unique, sure french weapons could be integrated but I do not think US would allow US weapons with JF-17 they refused to help U.A.E integrate Black Shaheen on F-16 Block 60 and up coming Block 61. Look at this way if Radar, weapons, EW suite and other electronics/software/mission computer are Turkish/French what is left on JF-17 from PAC/CAC? Chinese Engine?

 

[Babur Han]

I doubt that Turkey is willing to engage in such geopolitics so far away from its borders.

However if Turkey wants to work with Pakistan to equip its future allies with JF-17s and Turkish subsystems, theoretically it is a plausible solution.

Here is the answer !

Turkey doesn’t and will never support “Polisario front”: Erdogan
Submitted by admin on Tue, 04/06/2013 - 00:10


The Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan expressed his country’s position on the Sahara issue Monday on a visit to Morocco.



In a press conference held at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Rabat, with the Moroccan Prime Minister Abdelilah Benkirane, the Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan said: “Turkey does not recognize the Polisario Front, and we are supporting the negotiations led by the United Nations to find a just solution to the Sahara.”

Turkey doesn’t and will never support “Polisario front”: Erdogan | Sahara Question

 

[Luftwaffe]

I doubt that Turkey is willing to engage in such geopolitics so far away from its borders.

However if Turkey wants to work with Pakistan to equip its future allies with JF-17s and Turkish subsystems, theoretically it is a plausible solution.

Than Pakistan would not make much money out of it we can't afford such deals. Yes mix of weapons from China/Turkey/Pakistan gives flexibility.

 

[Babur Han]

I think Morocco will recieve the New Fighter in the next Decade, until 2020 F-16, modernized Mirage F1 and F-5 will be the backbone of RMAF. In this Time I'm Sure we will see turkish made WVR & BVR Missiles and I agree with Luftwaffe that a Mix pf Chinese, Pakistan and turkish Weapons give Morocco great Flexibility !

 

[Kompromat]

I think Morocco will recieve the New Fighter in the next Decade, until 2020 F-16, modernized Mirage F1 and F-5 will be the backbone of RMAF. In this Time I'm Sure we will see turkish made WVR & BVR Missiles and I agree with Luftwaffe that a Mix pf Chinese, Pakistan and turkish Weapons give Morocco great Flexibility !

Turkey should actively work for a C.Asian union

 

[Chak Bamu]

Future threat analysis for Morocco should take into account Algiers whose air force is more potent than Morocco's with 2 squadrons of SU-30 operational and another coming up in near future. Morocco also has around 30 Mig 29, some Mig 25, Mig 24, and 50+ light attack and trainers (Aero L-39 + Yak 130).

Morocco and Algiers have serious differences in their respective regional views and ambition. Morocco has no option but to improve its Air force.

@Luftwaffe , you are too worried about profit out of JF-17 when it has no export orders as of yet. We keep emphasizing JF-17's open architecture and flexibility. What good would these be, if PAC/CAC can not support their customers in leveraging these qualities?

 

[Luftwaffe]

Future threat analysis for Morocco should take into account Algiers whose air force is more potent than Morocco's with 2 squadrons of SU-30 operational and another coming up in near future. Morocco also has around 30 Mig 29, some Mig 25, Mig 24, and 50+ light attack and trainers (Aero L-39 + Yak 130).

Morocco and Algiers have serious differences in their respective regional views and ambition. Morocco has no option but to improve its Air force.

you are too worried about profit out of JF-17 when it has no export orders as of yet. We keep emphasizing JF-17's open architecture and flexibility. What good would these be, if PAC/CAC can not support their customers in leveraging these qualities?

Since Morocco is close Ally of US in any event US could supply more F-16s or even deploy their own squadron against the russian supported Algerian Air Force. F-16s are good enough to take care of SU-24 and Mig-29 so more F-16s is high possibility.

Industries live on profits remember F-16 production line was close to shutting down without any orders it is the new order that is keeping F-16 production line open, alot of people associated with industry/factory. What our friend insists is almost entire system/technologies/wepoans be of western/Turkish origin that would naturally mean providing just fuselage are we left to so such business and not show the our product have standards and quality and perform as good as any western 4+ Gen Aircraft? So my point is if exports order ever comes by. I understand open architecture for the customers to customized but it has to be limited the Aircraft already is low cost I would be about profits and success with the home made/JV Chinese technologies JV so it is also PAC/CAC to develop better product for exports so they don't go like india buying from the shelves incorporating.

 

[The SC]

These are the key words to remember :
What we know is that the chineses, through CATIC, have proposed an industrial cooperation and proposed their Chengdu/PAC JF-17 Thunder.
An Industrial cooperation can translate to Morocco making some components of the aircraft at home, thus creating hundreds or thousands of jobs, on top of getting a potent replacement for their current fighters.
Morocco can then order a 100 or so Block2 of these birds, manufacture some parts, and by some other high end f-16s in the future. In this way it will have an air-force to recon with at an affordable price. There is no other offer like this one on the market for Morocco, so they should take advantage of it by all means, it is all positive.

 

[Chak Bamu]

These are the key words to remember :
What we know is that the chineses, through CATIC, have proposed an industrial cooperation and proposed their Chengdu/PAC JF-17 Thunder.
An Industrial cooperation can translate to Morocco making some components of the aircraft at home, thus creating hundreds or thousands of jobs, on top of getting a potent replacement for their current fighters.
Morocco can then order a 100 or so Block2 of these birds, manufacture some parts, and by some other high end f-16s in the future. In this way it will have an air-force to recon with at an affordable price. There is no other offer like this one on the market for Morocco, so they should take advantage of it by all means, it is all positive.

It depends on their threat perception.

1. If they are looking to replace 30-50 aircraft, they would be likely not go for production all by themselves. They would have to spend a lot of money to set up facilities to produce aircraft. What would happen to those facilities when they are done manufacturing such a small number of aircraft?

2. If they are looking for a setup similar to PAF that can take on the worst of what Algiers can throw at them, then they might be looking at about 60-80 aircraft. Now that is where things start to get interesting.

3. If they are looking at projecting power in the region, then they should go for some twin-engine hard hitters in addition to single-engine jets.

It all depends on future plans of RMAF. The best case scenario for JF-17 would be #2 in my opinion.
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Are there no Moroccans here on PDF, who can discuss this stuff?