JF-17 or HAL-TEJAS LCA?

[Myth_buster_1]

3) Operation Ce Heigh :

Su 30 : 18000 m
F16 : 16000 m
Result : SU 30 can operate out of Range of F16. So F16 can't target Su 30.


If Indian SU is out of operation range of F16 ,what is benefit of purchasing long range AIM120C5?

if this is the case then lets bring back our starfighters from the storage!

 

[waraich66]

if this is the case then lets bring back our starfighters from the storage!

You are deviating from topic.If you can technically prove that JF-17 orF16 are superior ,it will be good news for pakistanis but for that you have to do some home work buddy!

I dont think indian are that stupid to buy 4 gen fighter if it is inferior then 3 gen fighter plan

 

[el nino]

JF17 will become the backbone of PAF because PAF needs to find replace 150+ mirage 3/5 WITH A LOW COST mrca.

Remember PAF military budget is a quarter of wat india spends and this ratio will fall even lower has INDIA,s GDP keeps rising.

THE JF17 has BVR so will be great to replace those vintage french birds..

LCA is a project that is currently floundering. THE IAF keep moving the goal posts. they now want LCA to be in the gripen NG class. yet it was supoose to match F16/A/B/C & MIRAGE 2000H WHEN IT WAS launched..

IAF want LCA to be bigger. have supercruise engine which must be 95NT power... with AESA radar ...

PAF have accepted JF17 with none of these issues...

INDIA has more options.. SU30 MKI MRCA PAKFA etc etc etc.

PAF does have other options to buy J10 OR F16/block 52 BUT NOT IN THE SAME NOS.

THATS why PAF will induct JF17

AND INDIA will give $11 billion to either F18SH e/f OR rafael probably around 2011

shame because i think LCA wud be a good replacement for IAF 300 MIG21/27

fighters

 

[All-Green]

I guess it almost looks like many people assume all kills/engagements are going to be standoff with SU30 sniping F-16

I am sure it is not going to be that one sided, relax.

Like i said different planes have different capabilities.
So far we are good with upgraded falcons and J-10 (with subsequent expected upgrades). We may not have access to Gen 5 aircraft from US so that leaves Russia (very difficult), Europe (difficult) and China (quite likely though will take time).
Maybe we need to assess our needs for some time since Gen5 aircraft are a major jump and hasty decisions will not get us anywhere especially with many potential strings attached (including huge cost).

As far as LCA, i am not as enlightened as most of you on its progress but JF17 is a bird in hand whereas LCA is still nowhere near immediate induction.

so do not underestimate the steps taken by PAF (within their budget constraints and political hurdles)

 

[s90]

Why u guys underestimating the JF-17?

 

[waraich66]

I guess it almost looks like many people assume all kills/engagements are going to be standoff with SU30 sniping F-16

I am sure it is not going to be that one sided, relax.

Like i said different planes have different capabilities.
So far we are good with upgraded falcons and J-10 (with subsequent expected upgrades). We may not have access to Gen 5 aircraft from US so that leaves Russia (very difficult), Europe (difficult) and China (quite likely though will take time).
Maybe we need to assess our needs for some time since Gen5 aircraft are a major jump and hasty decisions will not get us anywhere especially with many potential strings attached (including huge cost).

As far as LCA, i am not as enlightened as most of you on its progress but JF17 is a bird in hand whereas LCA is still nowhere near immediate induction.

so do not underestimate the steps taken by PAF (within their budget constraints and political hurdles)

Thanks buddy ,we know 4.5 or 5 gen is much expensive project but not expensive then our independence.

Espacially, if some body's loved one already shed blood serving PAF , PAKISTAN (Flight Lt. HAMEED ASGHAR SHAHEED PAF 1971).

 

[All-Green]

Thanks buddy ,we know 4.5 or 5 gen is much expensive project but not expensive then our independence.

Espacially, if some body's loved one already shed blood serving PAF , PAKISTAN (Flight Lt. HAMEED ASGHAR SHAHEED PAF 1971).

You are welcome warraich66, i would appreciate if you use my call sign All-Green...


Nothing is worth protecting more than our freedom but everything goes hand in hand (requirements/budget/performance etc.) and even US had to drastically reduce the number of F-22s to be inducted in their Air force so it is not that easy to foot the bill...

 

[apr1000]

LCA

T/W:1.07
Max Takeoff Weight: 31,000 lb

JF-17

T/W: 0.95
Max Takeoff Weight: 28.000 lb


the LCA's performance is with its old engine, not the new Eurojet or GE-414 Engine so in the future it should be even better.

also I want u guys to go to google images and type in LCA Cockpit and Jf-17 Cockpit and tell me which one looks better.

also the LCA was supposed to arrive by 2010 but since new engine its been delayed until 2012.

but by 2012, it should have a Eurojet or GE-414 Engine, as well as an Israeli Elta 2052 AESA radar.

recently India rejected scenemeca's offer, but thats to do with KAVERI, and until that's done the LCA will use Eurojet or GE-414 engine.


the LCA also is made of composites and remember what the guy from red flag said about mig-21's with Israeli cancellation devices? well LCA will be even worst thanks to its 70% composite body and its tiny size.

jf-17 is made of mostly metal with Russian engine(which isn't the best Russian Engine) and will require tons of maintnence compared to the new Western engines and the chinese copy ws-10 or w.e. is even worst.

also LCA has Israeli avonics the 2nd best in the world. u guys only have EU avonics which are good but not as good as Israeli. and u still dont have an AESA.

by 2020 IAF also wants TVC on LCA

heard no such plans from paf.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Any comparisons of the LCA and JF-17 need to occur when the LCA is inducted, since you would need the specs of both at that tie to perform an accurate comparison.

Assuming the LC is inducted when the JF-17 block II is being inducted, these comparisons would be meaningless unless we were able to state the block II specs.

 

[notorious_eagle]

Any comparisons of the LCA and JF-17 need to occur when the LCA is inducted, since you would need the specs of both at that tie to perform an accurate comparison.

Assuming the LC is inducted when the JF-17 block II is being inducted, these comparisons would be meaningless unless we were able to state the block II specs.

Exactly, i have seen the Indians talk big about LCA but the Indian Air Force is yet to induct it in there inventory.

 

[el nino]

Too Everybody on this forum

Has anybody heard of INTIAL OPERATIONAL CLEARANCE (ioc)

FOR either of these planes..

I thought LCA is slated IOC for 2010.

I also know that there 2 xTD 3xPV & 2x lsp tejas flying = 7 PLANES toward this goal. in 2010...

BUT

can somebody from PAK FORUM confirm when IOC is planned for JF17..

my own guess its late 2009 PAF i believe has JF17 x 8 but what we don,t know are they ALL with weapons & radar etc on board or just tech demonstrators........

JF17 project is not transparent like LCA except a few photos nobody knows at wat stage its realy at...

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Too Everybody on this forum

Has anybody heard of INTIAL OPERATIONAL CLEARANCE (ioc)

FOR either of these planes..

I thought LCA is slated IOC for 2010.

I also know that there 2 xTD 3xPV & 2x lsp tejas flying = 7 PLANES toward this goal. in 2010...

BUT

can somebody from PAK FORUM confirm when IOC is planned for JF17..

my own guess its late 2009 PAF i believe has JF17 x 8 but what we don,t know are they ALL with weapons & radar etc on board or just tech demonstrators........

JF17 project is not transparent like LCA except a few photos nobody knows at wat stage its realy at...

We do have statements from the ACM on that count, which have been posted on the JF-17 thread.

 

[el nino]

FOUND THE Ioc date for JF17 its around end of 2009 beginning 0f 2010..

Pakistans ACM is looking at a loan from china to by 42 JF17 AT THIS TIME of around £700m ..

Please see the passage copy
This givThe Pakistan Newswire

December 4, 2008 Thursday


PAF need to replace its fleet

KARACHI November 25

Chief of Air Staff, Air Marshal Tanvir M Ahmed said that Pakistan Air Force (PAF) would need to replace its fleet as two-third of its aircraft would be retiring in next five to seven years.

He was responding to a queries of mediapersons during his visit to 5th International Defence Exhibition and Seminar (IDEAS) 2008 at Karachi Expo Centre here.

He said that Chinese government and private sector would be approached for acquiring $ 700 to 800 million on soft terms to buy 40 to 42 JF-17 thunder jets for PAF.

Air Chief Marshal said that about eight JF-17 jets were under testing evaluation process, which will be completed in next one year. So far, the results are excellent, he added.

Responding to a question for the purchase of J-10, he said that the government would also seek credit facility on easy terms and condition from Chinese companies for their purchase.

To a question about the export of JF-17 thunder aircraft, Air Marshal Tanvir said that first we will meet PAFs demand, then we can consider for export. Currently we are not marketing for these aircrafts, he opined.

He also appreciated the efforts of Defence Export Promotion Organization (DEPO) for holding IDEAS 2008 which provide a good platform for displaying Pakistan defence production capabilities. es a unit price of around $17m each.

 

[SSGPA1]

PAF will get 5th generation jets after China gets one.

India will buy the F-35 or other US jet to keep the US happy.

This will open the road for high tech flow from Russia to China (with love) and this will result in 5th gen fighter for China.

 

[el nino]

Interesting points..

Both JF17 & LCA are not really for exporting AS YET..

IOC is around 2009 & 2010 FOR lca.

First 42 JF17 will come with chinease radar & weapons and russian engine

First 20 tejas will come with USA engine & ELTA 320 radar

IAF only commiited to 20 planes

PAF far more committed as i suggested in early post this is PAFS most realistic/affordable way to replace 2/3RD OF ITS FLEET

@ £17M EACH APPROX