JF-17/FC-1 Thunder Fighter

[Contrarian]

Why do you think the Russians have placed restrictions on the JF-17 export (due to the non-reexport clause on the RD-93??)
Its because they do not want Chinese to compete with JF-17 in the same market as the Mig-29.

Its actually to stop Pakistan getting them for now, delay the programme, nothing else, and that too because India put pressure on Russia. I assure you, there will be no restrictions of export for RD-93 to any other country but Pakistan.

Aside from the Mig-35 and Mig-29SMT, your basic Mig-29 is a BS point defence fighter.

Well...if you think MiG 29 is a BS fighter, then you might as well call your existing un-upgraded F-16 fighters too as BS. Because India got the MiG 29 as a counter to F-16's. Hell it was made to counter F-16's. It was better than F-16's in a2a, but very bad in multirole, something F-16 was very good in.

JF-17 and even FC-1 will have more updated avionics and armament than the vast majority of the Mig-29s that the Russians are themselves using and have sold off to unfortunate buyers around the world.

Ofcourse they have upgraded avionics than the original MiG 29, that plane was bought 15 years ago, JF-17 has not yet been inducted by PAF, obviously it will have better avionics. What are you trying to prove here?
Te MiG 29 SMT will have the latets avionics, and the Indian MiG 29's will go for that. Well, unfortunate or not, the buyers who bought MiG 29 obviously thought it fit to go for that. And obviously Russians sold the plane, why wouldnt they?

Please do not even get me started on this silly road.

It aint a silly road, your just ranting now.

 

[melb4aust]

It would help if you could infuse a bit of logic in your posts. I am not the one suggesting that Mig-29 cannot be turned into an effective aircraft. I am actually saying otherwise that an FC-1/JF-17 can easily outperform the vast majority of Mig-29s on the market/inventory due to more cost effective and updated technology.

And this is exactly what i was saying, thanks for explaining Blain2.

 

[Adux]

It would help if you could infuse a bit of logic in your posts. I am not the one suggesting that Mig-29 cannot be turned into an effective aircraft. I am actually saying otherwise that an FC-1/JF-17 can easily outperform the vast majority of Mig-29s on the market/inventory due to more cost effective and updated technology.

You didnt exactly say anything, Those MiG 29, can be updated and they are better from Manoeverbility, Missiles, A2G weapons, Payload, Range and Radar Size.
Now you can come up with all the Grifo updates and the rest, But Still MIG 29 is far better aircraft.

 

[melb4aust]

You didnt exactly say anything, Those MiG 29, can be updated and they are better from Manoeverbility, Missiles, A2G weapons, Payload, Range and Radar Size.
Now you can come up with all the Grifo updates and the rest, But Still MIG 29 is far better aircraft.

Tell me, Is it cost effective compared to JF-17, regarding both will do the same job in the end.

 

[Contrarian]

Tell me, Is it cost effective compared to JF-17, regarding both will do the same job in the end.

Dammit man, the MiG 29 SMT will outperform the JF-17 EASILY. They are of different classes, why the HELL are we comparing them?
What JOB will they perform in the end. I mean hell even the Su-30 will also perform the same job in the end, so does that mean we should all buy JF-17's??

 

[blain2]

Jf-17 can be update with ultra-duper-modern avionics and MiG-29 cant be...right


Melby,

Are you seriously telling me the current MIG 29 can be handled by a JF-17, i have a hard time believing it, and most people in Keypub and the rest dont think so, This drivel is only available in pakistani forums, not even on chinese ones

Keypub is dominated by folks who think otherwise (mostly Indians who have an inherent anti-Pakistani bias). The fact that PAF is investing into the aircraft means that they had enough sense to invest into an aircraft which has more potential than dealing with Mig-21/23s/27s of the 60s/70s vintage.

So far I have yet to see an objective analysis from an Indian here who could tell me why JF-17 being low cost cannot compete well against the Mig-29 on the world market...also back it up with evidence of the overwhelming superiority of the Mig-29 in terms of weapons, avionics etc.....you guys don't know half the story with regards to whats going into the JF-17 and just for the sake of belittling the effort put it down. There is no objective criticism there..

 

[blain2]

Dammit man, the MiG 29 SMT will outperform the JF-17 EASILY. They are of different classes, why the HELL are we comparing them?

How so? Give me some facts here...not same old regurgitated "I told ya so dammit" bs please.

 

[blain2]

You didnt exactly say anything, Those MiG 29, can be updated and they are better from Manoeverbility, Missiles, A2G weapons, Payload, Range and Radar Size.
Now you can come up with all the Grifo updates and the rest, But Still MIG 29 is far better aircraft.

Maneuverability matters little when the JF-17 is slated to have HMS and a HOBS solution. Missiles, there is nothing markedly different in what the two sides would be using the in the form of SD-10 and Russian AA versions. For A2G weaponry, JF-17 will use the entire range of PGMs available to the PAF and the Chinese are also producing very decent PGMs. Payload does not matter from the standpoint of an aircraft holding its own against the Mig-29. All of the JF-17s are slated to get IFR so range is a non-issue. Radar size would be an advantage for the Mig-35/SMT at least but again in an AEW&C environment, AI radars and their absolute ranges would not be deal breakers.

 

[Adux]

Whatever you said is available for the MIG 29's too, So it is still MIG's, JF-17 victory will depend on wether its advesery will have a 80's MIG or not.

HMS, AWE&C, PGM's, LGB's, IFR and everything is available for MIG-29 too..so what is your point.

 

[Owais]

Whatever you said is available for the MIG 29's too, So it is still MIG's, JF-17 victory will depend on wether its advesery will have a 80's MIG or not.

HMS, AWE&C, PGM's, LGB's, IFR and everything is available for MIG-29 too..so what is your point.

If every thing is almost equal to JF-17 except that thunder is a Light weight fighter where as Mig29 is a medium weight so why are you sticking on the point that Mig29 can easily beat JF-17??
and kindly for your info, 80's migs were BVR Less means you are underestimating FC-1 too much!

 

[Adux]

You compare teh FC-1, LCA, Gripen etc it makes sense; MiG 29 is a differnet Beast, if you are going FC-1 of Genration X, meeting Mig 29 of Generation X, I dont see any advantage for the FC-1, its not cuz its bad plane or something. You cant compare Su-30MKI to Raptor. Same Logic

Its much better for countries like Iran, India etc to upgrade the MIG- 29 to MIG-29SMT standard rather than replace it with FC-1 or LCA etc.

 

[Owais]

You compare teh FC-1, LCA, Gripen etc it makes sense; MiG 29 is a differnet Beast, if you are going FC-1 of Genration X, meeting Mig 29 of Generation X, I dont see any advantage for the FC-1, its not cuz its bad plane or something. You cant compare Su-30MKI to Raptor. Same Logic

If you are talking in the sence of light weight or medium weight, then mig29 have no advantage over thunder in A to A combat. you are right that FC-1 have no advantage over Mig-29SMT but can you explain me what advantage does mig29 have on JF-17 in A to A combat??
also, raptor is a generation ahead of MKI unlike the comparison of thunder and mig-29SMT.

Its much better for countries like Iran, India etc to upgrade the MIG- 29 to MIG-29SMT standard rather than replace it with FC-1 or LCA etc.

yes you are right!
replacement cannot be done with the same generation/class.

 

[Adux]

Why are you comparing 1980's aircraft to a Aircraft made in 1990's. MIG 29 has range payload, It got better missiles, I would take the Russian missiles than cheap chinese knock-off's anyday.

 

[JK!]

A rule for WW2 US navy pilots was don't get into a dogfight with a Japanese Zero.

In a book I own about tactics called the combat training manual it goes as far as to say that an F15 pilot should not get into a dogfight with a MIG 29.

It says that instead they should rely on more powerful thrust and radar to take on an adversary.

However,when it comes down to it on all fronts I would have to go with a MIG 29 SMT over a JF 17 any day not through a lack of Patriotism but because Russian Technology is more advanced.

A real killer of a radar, BVR missiles and a thrust vectored WS 13 would make me rconsider though.

 

[Adux]

JK,

You are talking about WILD CATS vs ZERO's in the pacific theater, US won; reason Superior Tactics and beautiful Supply Chain Management