Featured JF-17 Emerged As The Star of Swift Retort

[Zulfiqar]

Come and get it

Should have gone with more pilots wearing the orange g suits in order to show substantial snow area deployment just to troll IAF.

 

[araz]

Thank you for your thoughts.

I am saddened from your response. It is counterproductive to quote Hadith and mention Prophet SAW's aswa Hussana. For simple reason, we are talking about people who have supported and backed criminals for decades. The criminals who are still causing untold damage to the people of Pakistan.
Comparison of such low life people with the mightiest Prophet (SAW) and man ever lived is uncalled for.

Your post is full of fear, if we done that, if we done this, what would have happened. Yeah, fear breathes cowardice.

One recent example is enough.

1- Asif Zardari and Bilawal engaged in opening and operating fake bank accounts. Have paid billions of out of them. All documented proofs.

I asked two questions, which we nationals of other countries can answered straight away.

1- What would happens if you open a bank account with fake name and fake documents in the West!!
2- How long can you stay out of the jail!!

You see this is not the first time of such high profile politicians using fake bank accounts. Decades ago, Nawaz and family used passports and identity of a family from East London.
Dar himself was involved in opening bank accounts with stolen documents, without any permissions from people involved.

They got away with it. They actually ruled over Pakistan for decades after that crime.

How many people had been involved with these criminals for decades, followed their orders. Served them!!
Pakistani men are without balls and are compromised.
Don't mention my beloved Prophet SAW again, please.
Pakistanis are rotten to the core.



I am not worried about the USA that much, like it is said, they want to keep their options open.
Where would they find cowards like Pakistanis who are ready to do anything on one phone call.
Nawaz did, Musharaf did.
They will keep Pakistan on tight leash as they like. All that fake bravado is for domestic consumption. Mostly used with poor and weak Pakistanis. The elites and powerful laugh at their faces and walk away with most deplorable crimes.

What if Israel get to work. The time to send F 16 to do the job is long gone.
Even changing of location is of no use. Now is the time for electronic snooping.
Do you see what's happening to Iran for last few weeks!!
What if that start to happen to Pakistan!!

I bet on one thing though , the cowards will still be inactive. Would make excuses that this and that would happen if we take action against Israel.

Indians failed in Feb 19 because they are stupid. Not because they didn't have the intentions to cause massive loss of life.

The intentions and failure due to stupidity are completely opposite to failure of action due to cowardice.

As I said to you let us agree to disagree. I quoted a hadeeth and the life of our Hadi SAW as this is what I know and want to run my life and my thought processes by. You turned it on its head as an alleged comparison between RasoolAllah SAW and the people of today whiich was not my intention. You took no notice of the content and the intent of my post which is why you have posted what you have. Any ways let us move on. You may have been saddened but you fail to realize the significance of what I posted and why. The life of Rasool Allah SAW is to be used to guide us in all matters of our lives not to be put on a padestal and then forgotten. No one expects to be at the level of the Rasool of Allah SAW or the sahabah e karaam but we study their lives to gain benefits from it. I will not engage in further argument with you as it will not be productive and will not change our thinking patterns. Plus it hqs derailed the topic at hand.
Have a good day.
Kind regards
A

 

[Alchemist17]

Go watch looney toons.

Its still better than your 24/7 BS about the “MiGht” of America. You have the audacity to call your slave mindset realism.

 

[truthseeker2010]

Chinese even have shown their discontent on next version SU35 as at long ranges their radars are unable to properly detect targets ( in plain words as I understand). The mighty radar of SU30 was reportedly jammed during confrontation. The Russian claims regarding superior tech of their weaponry should be well checked before dealing with them. On other side Pak should have the confidence that Russian S400 can also be countered if proper tactics are used in future.
But now biggest challenges for PAF are Rafale and BVRs being obtained by IAF, as in previous encounter the tactics and tech used by IAF were both practically inferior. However in future scenario the inferior tactics can be compensated by better tech of Rafale and reportedly even Tejas shall have AESA radar.



Sir if u don't mind even Nasr is armed with lighter Atomic warhead, it's impact can be in few kms, the missile is operational in numbers to tackle Indian Armor.
No one can claim with exact figures how many nukes deployed by Pak and where, how the info of 11 places came. Though Pakistan do not have strategic depth but has sufficient area to hide Atomic missiles. Even US officials have confirmed in the past about impossibility to destroy Pak Atomic weapons now being dispersed.

Rest assure rafale is not invicible and meteor has weakness, it has already taken care of, Paf will ALWAYS have first shoot capability.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Thank you for your reply. With high regard for you, I am quiet shocked what you are saying!
Like you, I also look at strategic outcomes and on that front this operation was not even a small tactical victory.
.....so PAF shot down one bison, one SU-30 whuch they dont acknowledge and, one was a friendly fire fixed rotor.
Now what india has gained before and after Feb 27, 2019:
1. India set the pattern to strike Pakistan across IB
2. Officially ceded entire Kashmir. Mind you, IoK is an official Pak occupied territory.
3. Kashmir in lock down and indian brutalities increased manifold.
4. They got their POW back in no time.
5. Increased terror activities in Pakistan. Attack at Karachi PSX is a glaring example, notwithstanding, activities in Karachi, Baluchistan, and FATA.

So Pakistan's Operation Lack Of Resolve has emboldened India, all because whoever were the planners were got cold feet and totally lost in a foggy mind.

If however, PAF had shot down all aireal targets of opportunity, sunk their sub on recon in Pak waters, that would have sunk enemy's morale into bay of Bengal and india wont dare cede Kashmir and locked down Kashmir.
PM IK fighting Kashmir war on tweeter, ISPR just releasing song after song, videos, audios, thus the story of fabled Pakistan Armed Forces ends.

I would like to see if you have any answer to my points.

I have lost my confidence in the courage and ability of the armed forces.

this is why you are not in the army or not in a position of making decisions.
all you listed what indians did is what a coward does.

your reasoning for questioning abilities and courage of our forces is false and very weak. it takes greater courage and confidence to own a situation without discharging weapons.

its perfectly fine if you fail to comprehend why PAF PN and PA did and decided NOT to do but your reasoning should be beyond an emotional blowhard.

 

[The Accountant]

Tunnel vision.

Out of argument ?

 

[imadul]

this is why you are not in the army or not in a position of making decisions.
all you listed what indians did is what a coward does.

your reasoning for questioning abilities and courage of our forces is false and very weak. it takes greater courage and confidence to own a situation without discharging weapons.

its perfectly fine if you fail to comprehend why PAF PN and PA did and decided NOT to do but your reasoning should be beyond an emotional blowhard.

I really like this argument from ELITE members, "this is why you are not in the army or not in a position of making decisions."
That really puts one to their right place, right?

OK, then, answer these two question honestly and dispassionately:
1. Was Kargil a misadventure?
2. Was 1962 Sino-India war was a missed opportunity?

I mean, both times some great decision makers were there on that unique pedestal controlling both the military and the government!! And from your own LOGIC, for good reason.
Cheers.

 

[MastanKhan]

Thank you for your thoughts.

I am saddened from your response. It is counterproductive to quote Hadith and mention Prophet SAW's aswa Hussana. For simple reason, we are talking about people who have supported and backed criminals for decades. The criminals who are still causing untold damage to the people of Pakistan.
Comparison of such low life people with the mightiest Prophet (SAW) and man ever lived is uncalled for.

Your post is full of fear, if we done that, if we done this, what would have happened. Yeah, fear breathes cowardice.

One recent example is enough.

1- Asif Zardari and Bilawal engaged in opening and operating fake bank accounts. Have paid billions of out of them. All documented proofs.

I asked two questions, which we nationals of other countries can answered straight away.

1- What would happens if you open a bank account with fake name and fake documents in the West!!
2- How long can you stay out of the jail!!

You see this is not the first time of such high profile politicians using fake bank accounts. Decades ago, Nawaz and family used passports and identity of a family from East London.
Dar himself was involved in opening bank accounts with stolen documents, without any permissions from people involved.

They got away with it. They actually ruled over Pakistan for decades after that crime.

How many people had been involved with these criminals for decades, followed their orders. Served them!!
Pakistani men are without balls and are compromised.
Don't mention my beloved Prophet SAW again, please.
Pakistanis are rotten to the core.



I am not worried about the USA that much, like it is said, they want to keep their options open.
Where would they find cowards like Pakistanis who are ready to do anything on one phone call.
Nawaz did, Musharaf did.
They will keep Pakistan on tight leash as they like. All that fake bravado is for domestic consumption. Mostly used with poor and weak Pakistanis. The elites and powerful laugh at their faces and walk away with most deplorable crimes.

What if Israel get to work. The time to send F 16 to do the job is long gone.
Even changing of location is of no use. Now is the time for electronic snooping.
Do you see what's happening to Iran for last few weeks!!
What if that start to happen to Pakistan!!

I bet on one thing though , the cowards will still be inactive. Would make excuses that this and that would happen if we take action against Israel.

Indians failed in Feb 19 because they are stupid. Not because they didn't have the intentions to cause massive loss of life.

The intentions and failure due to stupidity are completely opposite to failure of action due to cowardice.

Hi,

Thank you for your post.

The stench of fear spreads far and wide and engrosses those who have a hint of doubt in them.

Sir forgive my curiosity but how will USA do it? I have heard you thousands of time say this but you never elaborate your self on what course of action USA will take? Just saying that USA will stop them makes me disregard your words as they come in the realm of mare statements.
If USA was so potent at taking out Nuclear weapons, I think north Korea would have been denuclearized long ago.

Hi,

North korea is going top be a future CHRISTIAN NATION.

 

[crankthatskunk]

As I said to you let us agree to disagree. I quoted a hadeeth and the life of our Hadi SAW as this is what I know and want to run my life and my thought processes by. You turned it on its head as an alleged comparison between RasoolAllah SAW and the people of today whiich was not my intention. You took no notice of the content and the intent of my post which is why you have posted what you have. Any ways let us move on. You may have been saddened but you fail to realize the significance of what I posted and why. The life of Rasool Allah SAW is to be used to guide us in all matters of our lives not to be put on a padestal and then forgotten. No one expects to be at the level of the Rasool of Allah SAW or the sahabah e karaam but we study their lives to gain benefits from it. I will not engage in further argument with you as it will not be productive and will not change our thinking patterns. Plus it hqs derailed the topic at hand.
Have a good day.
Kind regards
A

Brother, that is fine with me. Your and mine is not a personal argument, please remember that.
You know why I am so angry and bitter!! Not for personal reasons. I am genuinely shocked to see what kind of non-sense goes on in Pakistan without punishment.
Pakistani people are suffering great deal, when they don't need to. If Pakistani continued like it did in 60s and early 70s it would be quite rich nation, combating poverty and taking care of poor of Pakistan, giving them better health and education opportunities.
I got angry every since, Kiyani pampered the corrupt Nawaz. Then Raheel Sharif saved Maryam.

More than 2 years ago before IK came to power, two decisions were made on almost the same day, one was against IK and the other was in favour of Shahbaz. On that day I said to my wife, mark my words, today's decision from the courts in favour of Shahbaz came because of Establishment wishes. They want to save him to be the next PM when they need it.

Nothing since then has convinced me otherwise. If anything the recent crooked declaration by Shahbaz to have tested positive for Corona and Bajwa and Raheel Sharif phoning him have cemented that point of view.

It is a given that both of them know far more than we do about the crimes of Sharifs. But still butter them and keep them active so they can be used at the right time.

Is this in the interest of Pakistani nation!! Offcourse not.

These crooks can never prove their sources of income and their life styles. Let Shahbaz give such answer that his life style is maintained by selling milk to HM Custom and Revenue or IRS. He would be banged in the jail in no time.
But in Pakistan he is pampered to be future PM by its establishment.

Those whose actions are such are going to defend the country's honour with bravery!!
I doubt it. Almost everyone in Pakistan higher up is compromised. No wonder IK is having such opposition from almost all corners.

Poor Imran, sometimes I feel sorry for him. Whatever he said and does it is normal for us who are grown up in the West. It is pertinent to say that I am not a PTI or Imran supporter.

 

[CriticalThinker02]

@Ark_Angel
I would encourage the rest of the folks here as I have in the past - from our perspective Swift Retort was a Day-In-The-Life test for our training and its done.
From a pure PAF perspective - it was nothing special when the variety of scenarios trained for and tools available are taken into account. It is time to move on and focus on whatever else the IAF tries to cook up.


History does repeat itself and much like 71 after 65.. the IAF has licked its wounds and is prepping furiously; it wont be a cake walk next time since the challenges are beyond the PAF but they do impact it - and Pakistanis can only hope to mitigate those impacts

That is why I'm saying that PAF should have taken out all the jets, maximum damage without constraints because the IAF now knows it limitations without suffering any major setbacks.

 

[SQ8]

Brother, that is fine with me. Your and mine is not a personal argument, please remember that.
You know why I am so angry and bitter!! Not for personal reasons. I am genuinely shocked to see what kind of non-sense goes on in Pakistan without punishment.
Pakistani people are suffering great deal, when they don't need to. If Pakistani continued like it did in 60s and early 70s it would be quite rich nation, combating poverty and taking care of poor of Pakistan, giving them better health and education opportunities.
I got angry every since, Kiyani pampered the corrupt Nawaz. Then Raheel Sharif saved Maryam.

More than 2 years ago before IK came to power, two decisions were made on almost the same day, one was against IK and the other was in favour of Shahbaz. On that day I said to my wife, mark my words, today's decision from the courts in favour of Shahbaz came because of Establishment wishes. They want to save him to be the next PM when they need it.

Nothing since then has convinced me otherwise. If anything the recent crooked declaration by Shahbaz to have tested positive for Corona and Bajwa and Raheel Sharif phoning him have cemented that point of view.

It is a given that both of them know far more than we do about the crimes of Sharifs. But still butter them and keep them active so they can be used at the right time.

Is this in the interest of Pakistani nation!! Offcourse not.

These crooks can never prove their sources of income and their life styles. Let Shahbaz give such answer that his life style is maintained by selling milk to HM Custom and Revenue or IRS. He would be banged in the jail in no time.
But in Pakistan he is pampered to be future PM by its establishment.

Those whose actions are such are going to defend the country's honour with bravery!!
I doubt it. Almost everyone in Pakistan higher up is compromised. No wonder IK is having such opposition from almost all corners.

Poor Imran, sometimes I feel sorry for him. Whatever he said and does it is normal for us who are grown up in the West. It is pertinent to say that I am not a PTI or Imran supporter.

We are heading off topic and should return- but DHA Pakistan is a sweet possession to simply lose to a silly war.

 

[Vapour]

Thank you for your reply. With high regard for you, I am quiet shocked what you are saying!
Like you, I also look at strategic outcomes and on that front this operation was not even a small tactical victory.
.....so PAF shot down one bison, one SU-30 whuch they dont acknowledge and, one was a friendly fire fixed rotor.
Now what india has gained before and after Feb 27, 2019:
1. India set the pattern to strike Pakistan across IB
2. Officially ceded entire Kashmir. Mind you, IoK is an official Pak occupied territory.
3. Kashmir in lock down and indian brutalities increased manifold.
4. They got their POW back in no time.
5. Increased terror activities in Pakistan. Attack at Karachi PSX is a glaring example, notwithstanding, activities in Karachi, Baluchistan, and FATA.

So Pakistan's Operation Lack Of Resolve has emboldened India, all because whoever were the planners were got cold feet and totally lost in a foggy mind.

If however, PAF had shot down all aireal targets of opportunity, sunk their sub on recon in Pak waters, that would have sunk enemy's morale into bay of Bengal and india wont dare cede Kashmir and locked down Kashmir.
PM IK fighting Kashmir war on tweeter, ISPR just releasing song after song, videos, audios, thus the story of fabled Pakistan Armed Forces ends.

I would like to see if you have any answer to my points.

I have lost my confidence in the courage and ability of the armed forces.

Just regarding #2, Pakistan did not reciprocate India's move to include the entirety of the disputed Kashmir region within its own territory. We would have heard at least one Govt minister or Army Chief/DG ISPR mention it even once, if we had done so. Pakistan, rightly, believes in letting the Kashmiris self-determine their own future.

Regarding overt military action, just a single glance at what you're looking to invade as well as the geopolitical environment right now, even compared to Balakot and Swift Retort, is entirely different (any unilateral action without a strong casus belli, especially since nothing was done immediately after August 5th overtly, could invite grievous consequences for Pakistan). That might sound like a downer, but just from the hints and other gatherings from all over the place, it does appear covertly, things have ratcheted up a notch and that has to be commended to who may be concerned.

 

[araz]

Brother, that is fine with me. Your and mine is not a personal argument, please remember that.
You know why I am so angry and bitter!! Not for personal reasons. I am genuinely shocked to see what kind of non-sense goes on in Pakistan without punishment.
Pakistani people are suffering great deal, when they don't need to. If Pakistani continued like it did in 60s and early 70s it would be quite rich nation, combating poverty and taking care of poor of Pakistan, giving them better health and education opportunities.
I got angry every since, Kiyani pampered the corrupt Nawaz. Then Raheel Sharif saved Maryam.

More than 2 years ago before IK came to power, two decisions were made on almost the same day, one was against IK and the other was in favour of Shahbaz. On that day I said to my wife, mark my words, today's decision from the courts in favour of Shahbaz came because of Establishment wishes. They want to save him to be the next PM when they need it.

Nothing since then has convinced me otherwise. If anything the recent crooked declaration by Shahbaz to have tested positive for Corona and Bajwa and Raheel Sharif phoning him have cemented that point of view.

It is a given that both of them know far more than we do about the crimes of Sharifs. But still butter them and keep them active so they can be used at the right time.

Is this in the interest of Pakistani nation!! Offcourse not.

These crooks can never prove their sources of income and their life styles. Let Shahbaz give such answer that his life style is maintained by selling milk to HM Custom and Revenue or IRS. He would be banged in the jail in no time.
But in Pakistan he is pampered to be future PM by its establishment.

Those whose actions are such are going to defend the country's honour with bravery!!
I doubt it. Almost everyone in Pakistan higher up is compromised. No wonder IK is having such opposition from almost all corners.

Poor Imran, sometimes I feel sorry for him. Whatever he said and does it is normal for us who are grown up in the West. It is pertinent to say that I am not a PTI or Imran supporter.

You are coming out with quite a few diverse things. Needless to say there is corruption everywhere and sometimes blatant. Tony Blair lied on oath and led the country into a war with no positive results to come out of it. Then you have Dear Boris who can think of nothing better than to compare ladies wearing the Naqabas letter boxes. There is so much wastage and corruption in the UK you cannot imagine.
To give an example two London hospitals were made to borrow 78and 119 miliion at 12.8 and 20% Fixed interest for 30 years with no optout clause at a time when national interest rates were around 3%.
Thrn you have the Orange man known to have had help from the Russians in winning the election but constantly blocking investigations against him.
Corruption is an accepted fact in world political and military circles. It does not mean it is right and is not condemnable but it is a reality of our existence. Pakistani politicoMilitary circles are no different. The issue here is one of alternates. The Govtt needs to run. The army has tried umpteen times and cannot run the state without maiing a hash of it and be considered a pariah in the world. What is cureently being practiced is remote controlled management. The army needs people on its side to supportcthe institution. No good having a military when half the generals have been hanged for corruption. Most of the polity would be gone. Mohd Mian Soomro once said it cost 5to 6 carrores to run an election campaign. Once you come into power your first need is to recoup the loss and prepare for the next round. Once that is done then you look at what needs to be done. The system is not only corrupt but inept Jahil and lazy. People at various levels take it for a ride every day to earn a living. That is why there are no easy to read and understand rules for any Govtt deptt so the babus can make "ouper ki aamdani". And so it goes on with a smattering of honest individuals. One such relatively honest gent who was a senior income tax guy used to say, " I openly admit that if some one gives me a gift I will accept it. I will try and help out anyone I can but not stop anyone's work just because he wont pay me". Make what you want out of it.
So the national forces are a part of this nation. There is corruption in procurements and hanky panky in perks etc but when it comes to the country they have certain aims. They want to protect Pakistan but will not enter into an argument with India over it. I will go out on a limb and say they will not disturb the status quo in Kashmir. The reasons are there and I can discuss them at length but not on an open forum.
Allah on the other hand has his own plans. India just by annexing Kashmir has thrown rhe gauntlet onto the battle field as it potentially gives it control over our water resource. This will force a war but at a time and place of Allah's choosing. Till that time things will potter along in the same vein. IK in spite of being financially honest is a single man and somewhat devoid of managerial skills. Even if he was otherwise the recent events are beyond anyone's control. If we have a relatively long stretch of safe existence we may come out of our economic difficulties and along the way of some recovery but then war is ahead of us.
These are my views and as such open to interpretation/rebuttal. Iam a simple man who sees the world through old eyes that see a lot more grey than black and white. Right or wrong this is the way of this world.
Is anyone inept,-possibly, are they not looking after Pakistan's interests-negative, are they cowards-no but possibly redefining the rules and times of engagement.
MaAsSalam
A

 

[The Accountant]

You are coming out with quite a few diverse things. Needless to say there is corruption everywhere and sometimes blatant. Tony Blair lied on oath and led the country into a war with no positive results to come out of it. Then you have Dear Boris who can think of nothing better than to compare ladies wearing the Naqabas letter boxes. There is so much wastage and corruption in the UK you cannot imagine.
To give an example two London hospitals were made to borrow 78and 119 miliion at 12.8 and 20% Fixed interest for 30 years with no optout clause at a time when national interest rates were around 3%.
Thrn you have the Orange man known to have had help from the Russians in winning the election but constantly blocking investigations against him.
Corruption is an accepted fact in world political and military circles. It does not mean it is right and is not condemnable but it is a reality of our existence. Pakistani politicoMilitary circles are no different. The issue here is one of alternates. The Govtt needs to run. The army has tried umpteen times and cannot run the state without maiing a hash of it and be considered a pariah in the world. What is cureently being practiced is remote controlled management. The army needs people on its side to supportcthe institution. No good having a military when half the generals have been hanged for corruption. Most of the polity would be gone. Mohd Mian Soomro once said it cost 5to 6 carrores to run an election campaign. Once you come into power your first need is to recoup the loss and prepare for the next round. Once that is done then you look at what needs to be done. The system is not only corrupt but inept Jahil and lazy. People at various levels take it for a ride every day to earn a living. That is why there are no easy to read and understand rules for any Govtt deptt so the babus can make "ouper ki aamdani". And so it goes on with a smattering of honest individuals. One such relatively honest gent who was a senior income tax guy used to say, " I openly admit that if some one gives me a gift I will accept it. I will try and help out anyone I can but not stop anyone's work just because he wont pay me". Make what you want out of it.
So the national forces are a part of this nation. There is corruption in procurements and hanky panky in perks etc but when it comes to the country they have certain aims. They want to protect Pakistan but will not enter into an argument with India over it. I will go out on a limb and say they will not disturb the status quo in Kashmir. The reasons are there and I can discuss them at length but not on an open forum.
Allah on the other hand has his own plans. India just by annexing Kashmir has thrown rhe gauntlet onto the battle field as it potentially gives it control over our water resource. This will force a war but at a time and place of Allah's choosing. Till that time things will potter along in the same vein. IK in spite of being financially honest is a single man and somewhat devoid of managerial skills. Even if he was otherwise the recent events are beyond anyone's control. If we have a relatively long stretch of safe existence we may come out of our economic difficulties and along the way of some recovery but then war is ahead of us.
These are my views and as such open to interpretation/rebuttal. Iam a simple man who sees the world through old eyes that see a lot more grey than black and white. Right or wrong this is the way of this world.
Is anyone inept,-possibly, are they not looking after Pakistan's interests-negative, are they cowards-no but possibly redefining the rules and times of engagement.
MaAsSalam
A

A masterpiece summarising alot of things. Your posts are treat to read and are more of articles the posts.

 

[wasileo80]

No such thing happened.
Both of the two Mirage 2000s and the two Su-30s were pulled back as they were outnumbered 6:1 (24 vs 4) and new reinforcements were being sent from Punjab, Haryana and even Rajasthan.

Why Pull back? are those Mirages and Flankers are not supposed to defend Indian Air Space and Military from Enemy action? Even they were out numbered, the duty of any defender is to defend its air space even its outnumbered 1 to 20. As you people shown in Bollywood movies that one company can defend against a brigade strength.
Dont put these lame excuses, If your argument taken as truth, then why your IAF didnt shoot down PAF fighters on 26th where PAF AD fighters were outnumbered as compare to aggressive IAF numbers?

Go and take a sleeping pill and rest.

No such thing happened.
Both of the two Mirage 2000s and the two Su-30s were pulled back as they were outnumbered 6:1 (24 vs 4) and new reinforcements were being sent from Punjab, Haryana and even Rajasthan.

Also your Air Force pull back Mirages and Flankers as they were out numbered. But they were happy to sent Migs against that number at the same time? Were those Mig-21 not out numbered against 24 PAF fighters???
Think before speak.... very pathetic excuses..