Featured JF-17 Emerged As The Star of Swift Retort

[truthfollower]

Pubg bans

Spice bombs - they are getting all end user and foreign policy consulting support they need; just depends on their National character on how well they listen to the teaching.

whats the reason of specially targeting Israel? India also used French made mirages and Russian made su-30s no special messages for them?

 

[PDF]

Squadron Leader Hassan Saddiqui should have been awarded Sitara-e-Jurat also. When I read the posts like in this thread confirming 100% Su-30 kill then why? Tamgha-e-Jurat?
This bother me and yes I trust my PAF but there should be an answer to my query..

Perhaps because Pakistan RoE and preference is the enemy jet being well enough in our airspace so that the debris of it falls in our territory. The Bison did, the MKI ended up in IoK.
You say you trust PAF, but if you want answers to things, you will have to get a position where you can get answers from PAF. Afterall, there is so much in Pakistan that is withheld from general population.

 

[crankthatskunk]

In that vein - because we are not learning anything then everything from cowardice to corruption to nepotism and so on .. all come into play.
There is “cowardice” within the rank and file at times because #humans with sense of security needs(both material and family) who are threatened.
I know of a sibling of a pilot in the air on 27th who was shaking and crying wanting her brother to be safe.. and Other grade 21 officers who have family abroad - houses - farms.. and folks who are scared of facing a gun but are in the military.. there arent many but they make it up the ranks weaseling their way(this isn’t unique to Pakistani military and frankly not completely fixable) The same applies to political leadership in a much larger aspect..

Both the civilian and military leadership and combined state draw from the Pakistani people and represent them - as a national character.
So if part of the national character is that we are also money hungry, cowards and corrupt thieves; then the inhabitants of Choristan should not point fingers before looking down their own and family necks to fix things.

After all, BB is still Zinda and Pubg bans gets calls of “Ab yaad aya Nawaz Sharif” , and malik riaz has multiple brass stars by their balls with investments and plots.. what are you expecting the result to be?

I keep hearing of this folk tale interaction between an Egyptian General and an Israeli one after the Yom Kippur war where the Israeli mocks them about hearing that Angels come and assist Muslims in battle but he never saw any.. to which the Egyptian replied that they did come but since they found no difference in character for the people between the Israelis and Muslims fighting each other they could not recognize who was who and went back.

If you keep making BBZ as your leader to steal what is the leftover after his father theft. He has a right to say, "kis me himmat hai ke mujhe se sawal kare". You see it is not me but BBZ calling Pakistanis cowards.

When you have Shahbaz Sharif justifying his life style declaring his incomes comes from cow's milk. And nobody to ask him where was your shop, or who did you supply, any books!! It is not me but Shahbaz Sharif calling Pakistanis cowards.

When you have Nawaz Sharif escaping the country on fake Medical Reports with the blessing of LHC. CJ of IHC asking the government to give guarantee of his life. Until now no action against him. Then it is not me but Nawaz Sharif calling Pakistanis cowards.

When you have Maryam Nawaz escaping any punishment from "Dawn Leaks" despite instigating it. She is given the good news that "we have cleared you from the inquiry" by no other than COAS.
When she can submit fake documents in the highest court in the Land and gets away with it without punishment.
When she can arranged videos of a serving judge to blackmail him and once again get away with it. Then it is not me but Maryam calling Pakistanis cowards.

When you have AAZ all his life stealing and then saying "NAB ke Chairman ki kia majal hai".
When he he opens fake bank accounts in peoples names who are very poor, then laugh on the national TV challenging any one to catch him. Then it is AAZ who is calling Pakistanis cowards not me.

When almost all of Pakistani journalists want these corrupt back in the power, then they are the one calling Pakistanis cowards.

Do you want me to continue!!
I am sure you got the idea.

Do you really want me or the world to respect such people!!

I bet that all the diplomats of Western Countries after seeing these shenanigans laugh and ridicule Pakistanis in their conversations.

The send very colourful reports to their capitals.

Nobody likes criminals, nobody likes cowards.

Bro,

Pakistani response to India on 27-02-19 was well-executed and measured. By showing restraint and releasing the captured Indian pilot, Pakistan achieved upperhand in the ensuing clash of NARRATIVES as well. These developments put a SMILE on the faces of many a Pakistani citizen and LIFTED the MORALE of the country by and large. Indians experienced the OPPOSITE - many Indians (begrudgingly) admit their miscalculation on this day.

If more Indian fighter jets could be shot down... great for "bragging rights" - I would be singing songs as well. But HOW and WHY?

By expanding the scale and scope of Pakistani military response, [our] establishment was RISKING starting another war with India and consequences could be grave for both in the process. This would have been [our] miscalculation then.

Indian military posture is increasingly DEFENSIVE since Ladakh episode. They might be preparing for 'possibilities' but expecting them to attack Pakistan again? Seems unlikely.

India won't be attacking Pakistan in force unless it wish to jeopardize its national achievements for the sake of a war from which it will not gain much. There is a limit to one's madness. They have China to worry about for now.

Pakistan should continue to act responsibly in my view.

Personal wishes should be on the BACK seat; Strategic calculus should be on the DRIVING seat.

Brother I agree , Chinese action in Ladakh has changed the dynamic greatly. But this action came year and half after Feb 19. Therefore, Pakistan's actions in Feb 19 were not driven because what is the condition of India is right at this moment.

If we look at the condition after 27th Feb, India was deterred temporarily, but it immediately started to address their short comings. Albeit by throwing lot of good money for arms they could have bought more sensibly for far less.

As for breaking of wars or hitting your enemies hard, why it is always Pakistan which shows "restrain". Indian didn't think restrain when it launched 26 Feb attacks!
I also mentioned thousands of death in Pakistan, especially Peshawar bomb blast incident, killing scores of innocent children.
Don't we know who carried that out!! Don't we know what role NDS and RAW played and are still playing, killing numerous innocent Pakistanis!!
Why Pakistan is quiet!! Why small countries with no real army to call upon can do this to an atomic power and get away with it!! I tell you why, because cowards are sitting in Pakistan, who takes every blow and do nothing.
Any country can do that to Israel!! Despite their minuscule numbers. Why!!

We all need to think.

 

[PakFactor]

that looks VERY NEAT guys MUST SAY " IMPRESSIVE "

View attachment 654551

but this is what you will need to get thru next time

The 1st one wasn’t able to do anything and we’ll make the 2nd taste the 1st ones behind as well.

 

[Rahil khan]

that looks VERY NEAT guys MUST SAY " IMPRESSIVE "

View attachment 654551

but this is what you will need to get thru next time

Next time, your folks shall go for another shopping spree, because despite the fact that IAF enjoyed BVR edge over PAF for almost two decades till 2010 or so, suddenly on a morning of Feb 2019 IAF realized that their R-77s missiles aren't as effective as AIM-120....Aur Phir Yeh Bhee Kahen gy....Yeh लड़ाकू जेट hota, toh yeh Na hota..! Its the PAF which has gained technological parity with IAF during last 15 years. You guys needs 2 worry alot about what PAF will put it hands on in upcoming five years.

 

[SQ8]

whats the reason of specially targeting Israel? India also used French made mirages and Russian made su-30s no special messages for them?

Perceived priority of hostility with Israel - with historical actual and fictional precedence.

 

[PakShaheen79]

THE aim 120 DID not score buddy ...... It took 4 to 6 shots at SU30MKI and missed them all.
That is shit kill ratio

The R77 or R27 was never fired as was MICA in the Mirage2000 never fired, WHY because IAF pilots waited for lock on to engage . BUT you guys were running away so we never got to within LOCK ON range. ie 80km max and 50km NEZ 90% kill chance.

IN CONTRAST
Your F16 drivers were taking shots at 90 to 100km with NO lock on in sight. They were going manuel override with AMRAAM shots trying to score from max range.
POOR BVR training or PANIC mode ....... take your pick
Your F16 pilots were worried by MKI achieving lock on and stayed over 100km away all the time

NOW please explain your IDEA of BVR superiority.

The MIG21 was shot down in a dog fight by the wing man of your F16 from within 5km

THE thunders did nothing but remain behind loc in case IAF crossed LOC which they never did.

Hi, that Swift Retort happened on Earth-219. We are here in Milkyway galaxy, on our earth it happened v differently. Thanks for sending us update from a galaxy FAR FAR AWAY ....

 

[Alchemist17]

Military doesn’t work like this. If your buddy is Airforce tech, than that all he knows inside AF. When it comes to classified stuff, it’s all need to know basis. Your Professional buddy regardless of rank AVM or Jeera mechanic will not hear about it. Period.

If it’s harmless and general convo information than it’s not classified and is hearsay.

No one talks about classified stuff here neither did anyone claim so. All guys here say that we first took permission. Just like a guy mentioned how he heard Abhinandan and Control communication but he didnt leak the whole convo. Indeed there is a whole military community with a understanding which they dont have with civilians and they do share some mild stuff with each other. Most of the stuff here 99% True. if you dont think its credible than dont participate, quite simple.

 

[Nomad40]

that looks VERY NEAT guys MUST SAY " IMPRESSIVE "

View attachment 654551

but this is what you will need to get thru next time

THE aim 120 DID not score buddy ...... It took 4 to 6 shots at SU30MKI and missed them all.
That is shit kill ratio

The R77 or R27 was never fired as was MICA in the Mirage2000 never fired, WHY because IAF pilots waited for lock on to engage . BUT you guys were running away so we never got to within LOCK ON range. ie 80km max and 50km NEZ 90% kill chance.

IN CONTRAST
Your F16 drivers were taking shots at 90 to 100km with NO lock on in sight. They were going manuel override with AMRAAM shots trying to score from max range.
POOR BVR training or PANIC mode ....... take your pick
Your F16 pilots were worried by MKI achieving lock on and stayed over 100km away all the time

NOW please explain your IDEA of BVR superiority.

The MIG21 was shot down in a dog fight by the wing man of your F16 from within 5km

THE thunders did nothing but remain behind loc in case IAF crossed LOC which they never did.

What on gods green earth are you blabbering about, HOLY hell the nonsense you speak in terms of technicality is just pure BS. It's getting cringe now-------seriously get a hobby.

 

[omegalamba7XL9]

View attachment 654593


What on gods green earth are you blabbering about, HOLY hell the nonsense you speak in terms of technicality is just pure BS. It's getting cringe now-------seriously get a hobby.

Feb 27th they found out that
They brought knife to a gun fight
Next time they will bring guns and we shall say
"We got more"
They match our guns our response
" Ours are bigger than yours"
Psychological diarrhea at full swing on these Endian brain's

 

[Rahil khan]

THE aim 120 DID not score buddy ...... It took 4 to 6 shots at SU30MKI and missed them all.
That is shit kill ratio

The R77 or R27 was never fired as was MICA in the Mirage2000 never fired, WHY because IAF pilots waited for lock on to engage . BUT you guys were running away so we never got to within LOCK ON range. ie 80km max and 50km NEZ 90% kill chance.

IN CONTRAST
Your F16 drivers were taking shots at 90 to 100km with NO lock on in sight. They were going manuel override with AMRAAM shots trying to score from max range.
POOR BVR training or PANIC mode ....... take your pick
Your F16 pilots were worried by MKI achieving lock on and stayed over 100km away all the time

NOW please explain your IDEA of BVR superiority.

The MIG21 was shot down in a dog fight by the wing man of your F16 from within 5km

THE thunders did nothing but remain behind loc in case IAF crossed LOC which they never did.

Yeah that's why your Mi 17 was flying over airspace filled with air to air missiles just to collect saffron from the mountain tops i guess..! Before shot downed by your own SPYDER along with six IAF personals. The incident was reluctantly admitted after more than six months. Naturally as a reward your Air Marshal Chandrashekharan Hari Kumar was shown a door. What you are drinking nowadays?

 

[Ark_Angel]

No dear, not sure if the officer in my DP participated in the operation before his martyrdom, however my source that day was monitoring the whole scenario in the air.

Wg Cdr Noman (RIP. Allah Jannat Me Jagah day Aur Darjat Buland Farmye) wasn't in any SR Flight Package.

 

[Thorough Pro]

While I agree that the PAF response was calculated and aimed at sending the message that we will not tolerate any aerial violations and would respond in kind and at the same time managed to not force them into a corner to invoke a response, BUT

After getting two planes shot down and almost every other kind being jammed and locked they realized that they were no match for PAF that day and quickly resorted to a missile launch (at least tried to) and were only stopped by a warning of a disproportionate response from our side. So they did what they had up their sleeve that day. Shooting down 6 or 7 more of their jets would have totally deflated any air that was still left in them and seeing almost every kind of top fighter in their arsenal being shot down in their own skies would have absolutely demoralized IAF and their pilots and they would have still tried to launch Brahomos that they already did only after two jets down ................ so in my opinion, which is just my opinion and might not be correct, nothing would have happened and PAF would have gained a psychological advantage over them for decades to come, the whole world would see PAF in a new light, we would have gained a lot more pilot training contracts from across the world, and probably sold a ton of Thunders.

I genuinely don't understand how some of you believe that PAF could have shot down every IAF jet that came within range without repercussions.

PAF targeting Indian Army sites was already an escalation over and above what the IAF did the previous day. How was PAF to justify an even bigger escalation of shooting down a large number of IAF jets over Indian territory? And what exactly do you guys think the IAF would have done after - just sit around?

The only jets that were shot down was a Mig21 that entered Pak airspace (justifiable) and a Su30 that was targeting our jets (somewhat justifiable). Anything more and we would have been seen internationally as the agressors and the Indians would have responded (with international support).

What the PAF did was calculated! They achieved their objective and taught the enemy a lesson, but didn't go overboard. Shooting down 7 jets wouldn't really have affected the IAF (that has many 100s more) but would certainly have led to a response by them, and even perhaps, it would be the Indians today who'd be boasting about how well they did last year.

The fact that we hit them, shot down 2 jets, and swiftly ended the Indian dreams of a 'new norm' shows that the right decisions were made.

Just to add - those saying that we showed our hand (surprise capability) and should have at least achieved more kills to make it worth while - please explain how 5 extra kills would have had any impact to an airforce with over 500 4th gen jets? And what would it have achieved other than boost your own ego?

But they started the unprovoked aggression, our war had started on Feb 26th. What if their bombs had landed on the buildings and killed some children? would we still give a calculated response?

No, PAF and GoP give them chance to save face so that they dont have to compulsorily retaliate.

We gave them a lesson to back off. They got a bloody nose and now they know we will fight back.

War between 2 nuclear armed countries is the last option.

 

[The Terminator]

their isnt goint to be a war any time soon between india pak and china. the leaders of all three countries exactly know what will be the consequences of full scale war in the region. even if india gets US backing to go to war with china they wont do it. they will never put their country's safety at stake for US.the economic war and proxy wars will remain continue and at the moment china is succesfully encircling india and india cant do much about it. india cant offer to its neighbors what china can and the world is foreseeing china as the next leading state of the world so they will prefer to be with china rather then india. china also has strong relations with russia so russia wont support india against china. india has isolated itself in the region due to its policy of bullying the neighbors and the recent skirmishes between india and china have also made china to adopt aggressive diplomatic policy against india. india can think of engaging in any conflict with either pak or china. with corona having a free run in india they are losing lives and economy on daily basis. no military can engage in a war when a disease is playing havoc with it s manpower and the entire nation.

You can't stop the inevitable. War is going to happen for 1 reason or the other and that too within a matter of years. This decade has already shown that its going to be really bloody 2020s. Either a few near pear forces would separately fight for their own survival at various points around the globe or it could be World War 3 right at our door steps.

UN is as irrelevant to the issues of today as it was league of nations back then. There is no single hegemonic military/economic power in the world. There is an old slowing down or declining power and the other one growing up rapidly and emerging power. If their dispute can't be readily settled down by cold war tactics. This may escalate to hot war sporadically once the time comes. Israel's official annexation of Jerusalem is underway, the tri nuclear neighbors in South Asia are effectively in state of undeclared war. The middle east has been cooking off since many decades specially in the last decade and its perfectly reaching to the point of implosion. Thanks to globalization, today no 2 powers can fight their way through in isolation as it was done previously. We have turned this planet into a global village and everything is interconnected more than everything before.

Unless humanity, somehow miraculously, finds any other Non violent ways to settle their long standing issues once and for all, the war is the einevitability. You may deny the fact as clear as a Sun but you can never avoid it.

Be prepared for the worse and hope that it passes away swiftly, causing least damage and stays in its cold stage and never goes hot. But still somehow manages to dissolve the deep rooted fault lines of major conflicts and conflicting interests of the powers

 

[Gripen9]

Could u DM me info regarding the bold part? I don't wanna derail the thread...but I'm very curious about that above. I have no clue as to what u r mentioning...and would like to read up on it.

Look up Angola war. South Africa was fighting a low intensity border war with Angola in Namibia (which it was occupying). Angola was supported by Cuban & East German communist forces while South Africa & West supported UNITA rebels.