JF-17 Block III's proposed AESA Radar KLJ-7A

[Deino]

Ok Sir jee what I can say if you are not agreed to just go around. I quote down a few more hints.

1. Speay licenced version from UK old version.
2. China somehow get its hand somehow over new versions .
3. Single Crystal Blades and other goodies and tweaks.
4. One of middle eastern country has lost an F-15 engine around nearly a decade back Never found .

This is all I can tell you, Sir Jee.
Further, I would say over and out Sir! .

If think over and out means you are out of arguments then it's fine, but there is nothing what you say:

1. The only engine that was licenced from a Spey engine was the Phantom II's engine, which was later built in China as the WS-9 for the JH-7. This engine hower is dated, old and does not fit to the JF-17. As such to suggest with a grin, a WS-9 might power the Block 3 you are plain wrong.
2. Again as noted above, a WS9 was never suggested for the Block 3 since it won't fit. So either you provide your source so we can discuss its credibility or you'll better do your homework. There are no "new versions" since production of that engine is long over and again it won't fit the JF-17 at least not without a complete redesign of the fuselage.
3. Irrelevant
4. So what? Or do you want to assume this lost engine was copied into something that fits the JF-17?? Sorry to say so but this is probably the biggest nonsense I read since these stupid claims, the J-20 is already using a +240kN serial WS-15 from day one! By the way, did you ever check the dimensions of thd F100 or F110 in comparison to the RD-93? ... so again, do your homework or privide a source or proof instead of referring to @MastanKhan who even claims the FC-31 is a copied F-35 and suggested to refit it with a single high-thust turbofan like the WS-10 or WS-15 ... as if changing an engine would be sooooo easy?

So agai, tell us what you think to know in order to discuss or stop posing stupid BS and the reason MK would agree with you is never an argument.

Best and take care.

 

[PeacefulWar]

I think you are building a case that is on weak footings. If you think MK's Thanks is of any value you are in a quagmire and the only way in a quagmire is down.. Firstly a lost engine of an F15 has no value to the Chinese from the perspective of single crystal tech as you have to have the metallurgical base to try and find the actual combinations of metals and the temperatures and all the other complexities that I am clueless about. Over the last decade the chinese have poured in 20 billion into research on metallurgy to get to where they are and this is most likely to have been the cause of the success that they have achieved(even now I think they have a few more byears to go before they a hieve maturity of tech). Some information on electrical components might have been gained but that would have been minimal. The chinese can ask for Engine cores to be built by Spey RR but I dont know the current engagement that RRSpey has with the Chinese to be able to comment. Lastly the changes that made the smoke less between block one and block 2 related to the changes in one of the LPTs according to @messiach whom I would tend to believe on this subject.
A

A lot people have no idea about RE. They think reverse engineering is a magic, you can just Ctrl+c then Ctrl+v

 

[Mughal-Prince]

So agai, tell us what you think to know in order to discuss or stop posing stupid BS and the reason MK would agree with you is never an argument.

Sir I suggest you kindly refrain from abuse even if you are a MOD.
You can't comprehend what I am pointing out and said it again and again.
Anyways its not the ordinary plain RD93 out of assembly line.
I Will elaborate if I get time and chance.

 

[Deino]

Sir I suggest you kindly refrain from abuse even if you are a MOD.
You can't comprehend what I am pointing out and said it again and again.
Anyways its not the ordinary plain RD93 out of assembly line.
I Will elaborate if I get time and chance.

I'm sorry if you feel abused but IMO t is a kind of trolling to make unrealistic claims and the avoid an explanation.
Again I gave no issues to get corrected even more to gain justified harsh critics, but these clajms make no sense: there is no possibility to bit a rumored improved spey jnto the JF-17, a lost US engjne might be technically relevant but it won't fit the JF-17 even more how do you explajn that China still have issues with the WS-15 and WS-19, while you hint towards a magically superior engine for the JF-17?

And I'm sure it is not only me who is eager for an explanation. So either explajn and prove it. Otherwise you cannot wonder that no-one takes such posts or you credible.

It is as if you tell us there are little green men on Mars but you are to lazy to explain ...

 

[Ultima Thule]

who in their right mind will come here for gathering information/spying? 99.9% of this here place is an encyclopedia of lies, bragging and misinformation.

are you defending Achakzai??? who as 100% anti Pakistan sentiments????

 

[Ultima Thule]

achakzai the Pukhtoon tribe is 100% anti-Pakistan? or Jemima the Ashkanazi (whom the janitor was abusing) 100% anti-Pakistan? please enlighten me oh great learned one!

listen to his speeches in NA, and i wont able spoon feed you, he speak by himself

 

[Ultima Thule]

are you actually reading and understanding the posts that you are replying to? if not please do read first

and stick to the topic please, this is not political thread

 

[Tumba]

Why so much hype about Jf-17 Blk III,
the fighter is not even in service yet might take a year or more to see production variant in PAF,
and from the leaked images there is no airframe change basically same fighter although as per reports seems like more composites will be used but thats just standard in fighter planes from past two decades.
There wont be any CFT to increase range same engine...
AESA radar is good upgrade from older chinese radar but nothing breathtaking seems like on same category as smaller ELTA2052 which will be installed in Tejas also.
And PL-15 well that has to be seen but still the radar is not powerful yet to get full benefit of missile range...
As per reports the chinese aesa shares same DNA from israeli aesa ... specifically Elta2030/50 series so from nose cone the smaller Aesa will less number of T/R modules will be used and if chines marketed Range in ideal conditions is slated to be 130 km against 5 mtr2 target pretty sure in real world it will be lesser so PL-15 doesnt offer much over SD-10 ...

and ground strike the plane is a light combat one what should be expect not much..

I dont rate it over BLk52 which PAF already has much better in overall sense. Both in air and far superior in strike.

 

[LeGenD]

Guys, keep Achakzai out of this discussion. Stick to the topic.

 

[Akasa]

Why so much hype about Jf-17 Blk III,
the fighter is not even in service yet might take a year or more to see production variant in PAF,
and from the leaked images there is no airframe change basically same fighter although as per reports seems like more composites will be used but thats just standard in fighter planes from past two decades.
There wont be any CFT to increase range same engine...
AESA radar is good upgrade from older chinese radar but nothing breathtaking seems like on same category as smaller ELTA2052 which will be installed in Tejas also.
And PL-15 well that has to be seen but still the radar is not powerful yet to get full benefit of missile range...
As per reports the chinese aesa shares same DNA from israeli aesa ... specifically Elta2030/50 series so from nose cone the smaller Aesa will less number of T/R modules will be used and if chines marketed Range in ideal conditions is slated to be 130 km against 5 mtr2 target pretty sure in real world it will be lesser so PL-15 doesnt offer much over SD-10 ...

and ground strike the plane is a light combat one what should be expect not much..

I dont rate it over BLk52 which PAF already has much better in overall sense. Both in air and far superior in strike.

The LKF-601E has more T/R modules than the Rafale's RBE2. The larger KLJ-7A has over 1000 T/R channels.

Not sure where you're getting the idea that the radar won't be sufficient to exploit the PL-15's full range.

 

[Tumba]

The LKF-601E has more T/R modules than the Rafale's RBE2. The larger KLJ-7A has over 1000 T/R channels.

Not sure where you're getting the idea that the radar won't be sufficient to exploit the PL-15's full range.

see AESA radar performance depends on two things:

Power per T/R module
No of T/R module

and from JF-17 nose cone it looks extremely difficult to get 1000 modules and if thats the case this means chinese T/R modules miniaturisation is much better than even USA I dont expect more that 700-800 modules though in nose cone of JF-17 even if smhow chinese mastered the tech..

coz of power the single engine Jf-17 is already underpowered in contemporary fighters of its era and on top of that even 700-800 T/R module pulling all out power to get target lock on fighter over 100 km is itself nonsensical...

Chinese are still a generation behind in material sciences still I give them benefit of doubt but not possible JF-17 will be carrying 1000 module on optimum power specially in a single jet.

And comparing with Rafale is bs... Rafale whole design is made for passive detection and still the Radar in Rafale is much better as power per T/R module is more than JF-17 can ever pump is a chinese aesa.

 

[Akasa]

and from JF-17 nose cone it looks extremely difficult to get 1000 modules and if thats the case this means chinese T/R modules miniaturisation is much better than even USA I dont expect more that 700-800 modules though in nose cone of JF-17 even if smhow chinese mastered the tech..

Do you have any mathematical measurements of the nose cone and the T/R module to support this?

The LKF-601E has 864 T/R modules as per the manufacturer and the KLJ-7A close to 1000.

coz of power the single engine Jf-17 is already underpowered in contemporary fighters of its era and on top of that even 700-800 T/R module pulling all out power to get target lock on fighter over 100 km is itself nonsensical...

The problem with your claim is that there is no definition of what is considered "underpowered" or not. It's always a compromise between what your desired thrust-to-weight ratio is and what available engines are at your disposal.

There is also nothing to imply that even a suboptimal powerplant would not provide enough power for the radar itself.

Chinese are still a generation behind in material sciences still I give them benefit of doubt but not possible JF-17 will be carrying 1000 module on optimum power specially in a single jet.

Radar components and design are tied in closely with the semiconductor industry, of which China is a major, major player. The miniaturization of Chinese AESA T/R modules has already been demonstrated on the radars of the J-10C and J-16, which respectively have 1152 and 1760 T/R modules.

aAnd comparing with Rafale is bs... Rafale whole design is made for passive detection and still the Radar in Rafale is much better as power per T/R module is more than JF-17 can ever pump is a chinese aesa.

If the Rafale is made only for passive detection (and keep in mind that the JF-17 also has "passive" sensors), then why does it sport an AESA radar?

You would need raw data to make the claim that the RBE2's power-per-module is higher than that of the JF-17's LKF601E or KLJ-7A.

 

[Tumba]

See chinese can market an AESA with 4000 modules but when the time comes for installation the dimensions and power matters for a Plateform...
so is klgxyz aesa is shown with 2000 modules in actual case the modules can be decreased or increase based on Plateform...

and yes Rafale main selling point is passive stealth ... Spectra and the radar is although powerful is purposefully made smaller as this radar can use its hardware to max and can get a lock on fighter over 100 km without sweating much unlike a single engine fighter like JF-17 on above of that no radars materials are not semiconductor lol..
For military and strategic purposes we dont need some super processor tech ... there are tests where even a 128 nm chip can provide enough processing power for a fighter plane usage..
Radar tech entirely depends upon how much input power can be converted to output waves and receiver frequency a solid material can catch..the processing angle comes after that..
And if u beleive in chinese its again and again proven the marketing done by chinese are not even 50% of the things u receive...
So if pakistanis blindly trust chinese theb its thr mistake although I think other than chinese they neither have money nor influence to get some good deal outside so whatever chinese are selling them they r taking it as something is good than nothing

 

[Akasa]

See chinese can market an AESA with 4000 modules but when the time comes for installation the dimensions and power matters for a Plateform...
so is klgxyz aesa is shown with 2000 modules in actual case the modules can be decreased or increase based on Plateform...

You have yet to provide logical reasoning or data to support your claim that the JF-17's current powerplant is insufficient to fully exploit the radar that it uses.

and yes Rafale main selling point is passive stealth ... Spectra and the radar is although powerful is purposefully made smaller as this radar can use its hardware to max and can get a lock on fighter over 100 km without sweating much unlike a single engine fighter like JF-17 on above of that no radars materials are not semiconductor lol..

And yet the Rafale, as with almost all other fighters of its class, carries both active and passive sensors. Passive sensors are limited by range and will not allow you to utilize long-range weaponry such as the Meteor or PL-15. Both have their uses but one cannot entirely replace the other.

For military and strategic purposes we dont need some super processor tech ... there are tests where even a 128 nm chip can provide enough processing power for a fighter plane usage..
Radar tech entirely depends upon how much input power can be converted to output waves and receiver frequency a solid material can catch..the processing angle comes after that..

Yes you do, since radars and chips/semiconductors are grounded in the same discipline of engineering and study. Not saying that materials engineering plays no role but you seem to have a very narrow perspective of what this field entails.

And if u beleive in chinese its again and again proven the marketing done by chinese are not even 50% of the things u receive...
So if pakistanis blindly trust chinese theb its thr mistake although I think other than chinese they neither have money nor influence to get some good deal outside so whatever chinese are selling them they r taking it as something is good than nothing

You don't need to trust anything anybody says. The customer will perform all of the testing and validation which means that there really is no incentive for the Chinese to lie about these types of export-oriented products.

 

[Tumba]

Well if u have so much faith on chinese marketing cant do much haha
And also there are no common base between radar and processor techs ..
and yes we can use silicon in T/R modules it might make them cheap but not effective enough for military applications ...
might be good for commercial usages though.
This is where the connection ends..
And regarding processors I dont find chinese anywhere near american chip industry..

We in India produce good enough Aesa with local manufactured chips for strategic purposes not even close to latest nm ranges...

and regarding JF-17 engine power ... a light single engine plane can never provide optimum power for an aesa with 1000 transmission receiver modules ...
better install aesa will lesser modules and keep them running on full capacity...