JF-17 Block II, A Final Thunder & The FC-20 - Updates

[SBD-3]

just found this one out

Pakistan-China to Develop JF-17 Block II‏
Although the JF-17 design was frozen after its 6th prototype, there was an informal understanding on further development of the block II stealthy version. Several designs of the stealthy JF-17 have since then been floated, like the one above. Now, there are reports coming of an MoU been officially signed between Pakistan and China to develop the much advanced block II version. The JF-17, despite seeing immense hindrance by India [and may be Russia now] is surprisingly seeing huge acceptance and appreciation from some very good Air forces of the world such as of Turkey and Egypt. In fact, there were also reports of India considering the JF-17 before 26/11.

The new JF-17 block II could be an indication of Pakistan’s approval for its next (5th) generation fighter and this comes because India has already agreed to “pay for” the PAK-FA Russian 5th generation fighter, aimed at countering the American F-22 Raptor. India is also on papers wooing an indigenous [?] 5th generation fighter called the MCA (Medium Combat aircraft) but with India’s LCA now entering its 4th decade of prototyping, this seems not likely before 2040, a time when 6th generation fighters would already be flying. The block II of JF-17 could see deployment before 2020. This is reported to be an entirely full-stealth aircraft. Congratulations to the nation.
China-Pak in MoU to Develop Variant on JF-17 Thunder

China and Pakistan have reportedly signed a memorandum of understanding to develop a stealth version of a light-weight fighter aircraft being jointly produced by them to match MiG-21 warplane, a work horse of the Indian Air Force.

JF-17 Thunder, also known as FC-1, being jointly built by Kamra-based Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) and Chengdu Aerospace Company (CAC) today made its first appearance at an international air show having flown in here after making refueling stops in Saudi Arabia and Turkey.

The plane, which has been in development in one form or another since 1991, is a symbol of cooperation between China and Pakistan and the first assembled version brought out by the Kamra plant, delivered in November last year, according to ‘Show News,’ a special issue of defence journal Aviation Week for the Farnborough Air Show.

“The two (countries) have also reportedly signed a memorandum of understanding to develop a stealth variant of the JF-17 Thunder,” it said.

The journal said that Pakistan Air Force (PAK) is expected to acquire around 250 JF-17s, but this may be a split of 100 in the JF-17 configuration, being displayed at the air show here, and 150 of the stealth multi-role combat aircraft (MCRA) between 2015 and 2025.

A Russian-built Klimov RD-93 engine — a specialised single-engine fighter variant of the Mig 29’s RS-33 powerplant, powers the plane. The first prototype of the warplane flew in 2003 and the first two Chinese-made versions were handed over to the PAF in March 2007.

Show organisers said that the two JF-17 fighter planes would not fly as part of the air show. “The aircraft has not completed its full release to service in Pakistan,” the journal said, quoting a member of the flight control committee.

“Although that full release is only month away, the PAF is also today in what is for them new territory. Farnborough is their very first event of this kind ever,” it said.

 

[T90TankGuy]

WTF not again yar , for heaven sake, time an time again i have told people that check out the dates of the articles before coming up to conclusions, this article is 4 years old and was written in April 2007 ,when both Pakistan and india had good relations , and india was looking approx 50 jf-17 airframes from Pakistan which were planned by india to be equipped with their own avionic systems

Try to understand the retrospect before coming up this insanity thing , this is 3rd time someone has come up with this article in last 3 days

India wanted to buy jf17 from pakistan? come on we have a choice of the best fighters in the world why from you guys? also i dont think India has ever had good enough relations with pakistan since its inception for it to buy a weapon system from it .

 

[kingdurgaking]

I am still curious what are 4th generation avionics?.....

"what i stressed is need for the avionics in 4th gen"

doesnt means anything like 4th generation avionics.. where did you get meaning 4th generation avionics in the above line?? just you have read the words "4th gen" and "avionics" without reading the entire line.. thats why i said dont scramble and read.. read it as a sentence..

 

[graphican]

China and Pakistan have reportedly signed a memorandum of understanding to develop a stealth version of a light-weight fighter aircraft being jointly produced by them to match MiG-21 warplane, a work horse of the Indian Air Force.

WOT THE F!
We are producing 5th gen to match Mig-21? HAHAHA.. thats funny!

hasnain0099, where did you get that? Please share its source.

Have a look at it.

The journal said that Pakistan Air Force (PAK) is expected to acquire around 250 JF-17s, but this may be a split of 100 in the JF-17 configuration, being displayed at the air show here, and 150 of the stealth multi-role combat aircraft (MCRA) between 2015 and 2025.

The writer is not updated and is ill informed.

 

[SBD-3]

WOT THE F!
We are producing 5th gen to match Mig-21? HAHAHA.. thats funny!

hasnain0099, where did you get that? Please share its source.

Have a look at it.


The writer is not updated and is ill informed.

This was a reproduce from PKKH. I think original report was produced by times of India or rediff

 

[rockstarIN]

Mani & Kingdurgaking,

I feel both of you are correct.

Mani is saying that A Big RCS jet will be deducted by the other one early so that it can see it first, maneuver itself into a more favorable position where its BVR missile has an advantage and less visible to the enemy jet.

--correct----

Kingdurgaking is saying that A Big RCS jet, though its cross section is high, due to its bigger powerful radar, can detect the smaller RCS jet almost the same time when the enemy jet detect it. Besides, since the max BVR firing range is around 55-70km now, both will see each other before missiles are fired.

---correct----

One more point need to be noted regarding deduction is IRST capabilities and passive avionics suits like spectra and barracuda, which will add more teeth to fighters besides ECM capabilities apart from capability of carrying more fuel and more weapons.

Thx

 

[Mani2020]

India wanted to buy jf17 from pakistan? come on we have a choice of the best fighters in the world why from you guys? also i dont think India has ever had good enough relations with pakistan since its inception for it to buy a weapon system from it .

Oh bhai it was few years ago prior to the 2008 attacks ,when both countries were having good relationships ,at that time due to continuous delays in LCA IAF was interested in jf-17 and was in mood of buying around 50 airframes that would have been fitted with indian avionics and in reaction of that Chinese refrained Pakistan from selling jf-17 to india,and that (2007) article which was being posted by many members here has that retrospect to that, this has been debated here before in one of the old threads and there was an article on that, i will try to google it that if i find it i will send it you meanwhile you yourself try to google it and if you have some inisde sources use them

 

[Mani2020]

just found this one out

Husnain looks like an old article and an over exaggerated one

 

[Mani2020]

here is the source
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_o_no4M2xEPY/TLlcH85FgjI/AAAAAAAALa4/o1eqqPZL2MU/s1600/P1020204-759658.JPG

haha lol firstly its a blogspot mean everyone including you and me can start a blog spot and write whatever fanboy stories like we want, secondly look at the part you are referring to clearly being edited , man another bharat rakshak story.

Mods we need your help

 

[Mani2020]

Mani & Kingdurgaking,

I feel both of you are correct.

Mani is saying that A Big RCS jet will be deducted by the other one early so that it can see it first, maneuver itself into a more favorable position where its BVR missile has an advantage and less visible to the enemy jet.

--correct----

Kingdurgaking is saying that A Big RCS jet, though its cross section is high, due to its bigger powerful radar, can detect the smaller RCS jet almost the same time when the enemy jet detect it. Besides, since the max BVR firing range is around 55-70km now, both will see each other before missiles are fired.

---correct----

One more point need to be noted regarding deduction is IRST capabilities and passive avionics suits like spectra and barracuda, which will add more teeth to fighters besides ECM capabilities apart from capability of carrying more fuel and more weapons.

Thx

His study was mostly mki centric while i was trying to convey my point by not considering jst one jet but as a whole, if you look at my post i said that there are various other aircrafts around the globe so we cant discuss it around one so lets have an even ground and suppose that both jets are having nearly same radar ranges etc on that basis the one with less RCS will have clear advantage , because in aviation you never know wat are you facing ,so jst going by one aircraft and ignoring other aircrafts is not rationality it was not one on one comparison rather general comparison and when you are doing general comparison of one thing you have to keep other things constant ,

 

[kingdurgaking]

Mani & Kingdurgaking,

I feel both of you are correct.

Mani is saying that A Big RCS jet will be deducted by the other one early so that it can see it first, maneuver itself into a more favorable position where its BVR missile has an advantage and less visible to the enemy jet.

--correct----

Kingdurgaking is saying that A Big RCS jet, though its cross section is high, due to its bigger powerful radar, can detect the smaller RCS jet almost the same time when the enemy jet detect it. Besides, since the max BVR firing range is around 55-70km now, both will see each other before missiles are fired.

---correct----

One more point need to be noted regarding deduction is IRST capabilities and passive avionics suits like spectra and barracuda, which will add more teeth to fighters besides ECM capabilities apart from capability of carrying more fuel and more weapons.

Thx

No My argument is there is no missile of the range 100KM -150KM in a battle conditions(because R-77 and AIM 120D needs ideal condition and altitude to conver the range of 100+KM.. most of the battle range is going to be 60-80 KM only).. while even the 4th generation fighters reduce the RCS to 1m2 ... the loadouts are going to increase the RCS.. so even fighters like Mig 29, Tejas or MMRCA which will have a decent radar can detect the them at 100+ KM can have a BVR lock at 60 to 80 KM... this applies to Rafale or EFT.. they advertise there RCS is 1 m2 in clean configuration... but they knew that when they load drop tank and missile under the wing they are going to increase the RCS by manifolds.. so they will also get detected by JF-17 or Tejas at 100 KM itself and will have a BVR lock at 60-80 KM.. provided they are having a BVR missile to be launched at that distance and a decent radar... while the Pakistani guys feel i am MKI centeric... but i am not.. i have given the example with EFT and Rafale opposit to JF-17 and Tejas now..

 

[Silk]

No My argument is there is no missile of the range 100KM -150KM in a battle conditions(because R-77 and AIM 120D needs ideal condition and altitude to conver the range of 100+KM.. most of the battle range is going to be 60-80 KM only).. while even the 4th generation fighters reduce the RCS to 1m2 ... the loadouts are going to increase the RCS.. so even fighters like Mig 29, Tejas or MMRCA which will have a decent radar can detect the them at 100+ KM can have a BVR lock at 60 to 80 KM... this applies to Rafale or EFT.. they advertise there RCS is 1 m2 in clean configuration... but they knew that when they load drop tank and missile under the wing they are going to increase the RCS by manifolds.. so they will also get detected by JF-17 or Tejas at 100 KM itself and will have a BVR lock at 60-80 KM.. provided they are having a BVR missile to be launched at that distance and a decent radar... while the Pakistani guys feel i am MKI centeric... but i am not.. i have given the example with EFT and Rafale opposit to JF-17 and Tejas now..

Add to that the ECM/ECCM/detecting active radars etc etc you know it is not just a simple game. Add to that AWACS or netcentric warfare and you have a even more complex outcome. Add to that nukes/CM/BM and you know it is not going to happen. So why is India going to raise conventional level. Even against China it will not bring much change.

 

[Xracer2]

Will JF Thunder Block 2 do Cobra maneuver or Not

 

[Luftwaffe]

This thread seems to have been hijacked by kids.

Xracer2 is useless stunt it has no significance and relevance in actual combat. I can imagine a fighter doing cobra maneuver and an AMRAAM blows its arse out of the sky.

 

[khanasifm]

AW&ST February 2th 2008 print edition (US), CITAC President interview states FC-1/JF-17 stealth features based on new material and not new airframe design, change to include canopy, intake and leading edges so I think its just switching to composites. Plus better Air to Ground capabilities (Block II)