JF-17 Block-3 -- Updates, News & Discussion

[AMRAAM]

There was a JF-17B rollout ceremony on 31st Dec last year from PAC. Are we going to see any such rollout this year as well? For a few units of B3 may be?

 

[Blacklight]

There was a JF-17B rollout ceremony on 31st Dec last year from PAC. Are we going to see any such rollout this year as well? For a few units of B3 may be?

No promises but maybe Q1 2022, approx dozen, InSha-Allah

 

[denel]

PAC has absorbed most of the technology to build Jf-17 till block 2 barring engine but yeah most of the R&D is being done in CATIC for newer alteration(s).

I think many will disagree with you on this. It is still not out of knock down assembly still. until local fabrication from metal is done, we can then have a discussion.

Absorbing does not mean you can do it from scratch. IP side, i still dont think China will be willing to hand over all the keys.

 

[Iron Shrappenel]

I think many will disagree with you on this. It is still not out of knock down assembly still. until local fabrication from metal is done, we can then have a discussion.

Absorbing does not mean you can do it from scratch. IP side, i still dont think China will be willing to hand over all the keys.

Weren't most of the metal fabrication being done in PAC ? As far as I remember the fuselage used to be imported... Any update on that ? We have seen CNC milling machines for wing fabrication...

 

[Invictus01]

No promises but maybe Q1 2022, approx dozen, InSha-Allah

You got to be kidding me
It was I believe 23rd march
Then perhaps 14 August
The last I heard was prolly the end of this year
Now it's Q1 2022
Stop giving timelines not until you're absolutely sure
This guess work is getting absolutely ridiculous now

 

[Bossman]

I think many will disagree with you on this. It is still not out of knock down assembly still. until local fabrication from metal is done, we can then have a discussion.

Absorbing does not mean you can do it from scratch. IP side, i still dont think China will be willing to hand over all the keys.

You are wrong. Go visit PAC website, they have good videos on PAC’s capability for fabrication and machining from scratch. All very high end European CNC machines

 

[Aesterix]

You got to be kidding me
It was I believe 23rd march
Then perhaps 14 August
The last I heard was prolly the end of this year
Now it's Q1 2022
Stop giving timelines not until you're absolutely sure
This guess work is getting absolutely ridiculous now

ISPR sucks eggs at PR and not good at splashing their stuff.
It will be a low key induction at a random date.

 

[khanasifm]

Paf would need min. of 250 jf-17 to replace all older types let’s see where it ends up

 

[denel]

Weren't most of the metal fabrication being done in PAC ? As far as I remember the fuselage used to be imported... Any update on that ? We have seen CNC milling machines for wing fabrication...

Fabrication is just one aspect. Let us discuss: 1. Actual metal alloys are not made in Pak. 2. Does PAC have stress testing of all wings or even new wings - no. 3. Composite fabrication - no.

You will realise that none of this is inhouse just kits coming over from China. This is a seriously flawed vision.

Further down, are there wind tunnels in PAC for testing newer wing designs should they be deciding to get this.

 

[Thorough Pro]

Thanks, that cleared it.

I wasn't talking about the Peace Gate-I/II F-16s.

I was talking about the PAF's F-16 plans after Peace Gate IV.

The US started marketing the F-16C/D Block-30/32 to countries (including Pakistan) in the mid-1980s. The PAF started looking at it in 1987-1988.

Though it ultimately ordered the F-16A/B Block-15OCU under Peace Gate III/IV, AHQ did actually chalk up plans to acquire an F-16C/D variant through the 1990s. In fact, there's an old Flight International article on this forum somewhere with ACM Parvaiz Mehdi Qureshi who said that the F-16 plan was for 110 F-16A/Bs plus an option for 50 more. The "50 more" were actually supposed to be C/Ds as that was the only variant in production in the 1990s.

Remember, the PAF canned the Sabre II in the late 1980s. It did so because, like so many other air forces in the world, going all-in on just the F-16s was the most optimal and cost-effective move. If not for Pressler, the PAF would've probably had one of the world's largest F-16 fleets like Egypt, Turkey, and South Korea.

It's worth noting that the PAF even went as far as footing the bill for original integration projects -- like ATLIS-II -- because it basically expected to fly mostly F-16s. It even tried to pick up the Penguin AShM, but for some reason, the project fell through at the time.

BTW this is the article I'm referring to:

With the embargoed fighters now destined for New Zealand, the Pakistan air force must soldier on with the 32 Block 15 F-16A/Bs surviving from an 1983 order. This is a far cry from the force of 110 F-16s it had planned to field by the turn of the century, with an option to acquire another 50.​

​

https://www.flightglobal.com/improvise-and-modernise/25188.article​

not correct, PAC still imports the front fuselag

PAC has absorbed most of the technology to build Jf-17 till block 2 barring engine but yeah most of the R&D is being done in CATIC for newer alteration(s).

That is why one must guard its secrets and never disclose their weaknesses to even their best friends

Imreeka's carrot and stick tactics with F-16 has hurt PAF more than anything. PAF is still drooling on F-16 despite knowing they can't get them.

 

[SQ8]

Imreeka's carrot and stick tactics with F-16 has hurt PAF more than anything. PAF is still drooling on F-16 despite knowing they can't get them.

If tomorrow 10 J-10Cs & 10 F-16Vs landed and India attacked -
The PAF pilots in the J-10 may be proficient in flying them but they would struggle with syncing datalinks, figuring out effectiveness in different parameters and working with other PAF assets to maximize the potential of that asset, apart from the fact that only the pilots trained to operate them from China would be able to fly them. At best those aircraft would be 50% mission effective and would realistically require 3 years before being fully understood by everyone from the pilots , technicians, AD controllers, tactics and strategists in AHQ. All of that is time and costs added beyond the price tag of the aircraft.

The 10 F-16Vs however would not have issues on datalinks, most of the weapons and flight performance would be known by all up and down the chain and even if the pilots that specifically trained on them were unavailable due to an emergency ANY Pilot from 5,9 or 11 sq would be able to start them up and take them up in the air to fight even if they aren't able to utilize the improved sensors and weapons to their fullest, they would understand most of the switchology and capability without the additional conversion. Technicians would still know how to service the engine for the most part, AD would know what to expect and strategists in AHQ how it integrates with their existing war plans without too much modification. That is what the PAF drools about.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

If tomorrow 10 J-10Cs & 10 F-16Vs landed and India attacked -
The PAF pilots in the J-10 may be proficient in flying them but they would struggle with syncing datalinks, figuring out effectiveness in different parameters and working with other PAF assets to maximize the potential of that asset, apart from the fact that only the pilots trained to operate them from China would be able to fly them. At best those aircraft would be 50% mission effective and would realistically require 3 years before being fully understood by everyone from the pilots , technicians, AD controllers, tactics and strategists in AHQ. All of that is time and costs added beyond the price tag of the aircraft.

The 10 F-16Vs however would not have issues on datalinks, most of the weapons and flight performance would be known by all up and down the chain and even if the pilots that specifically trained on them were unavailable due to an emergency ANY Pilot from 5,9 or 11 sq would be able to start them up and take them up in the air to fight even if they aren't able to utilize the improved sensors and weapons to their fullest, they would understand most of the switchology and capability without the additional conversion. Technicians would still know how to service the engine for the most part, AD would know what to expect and strategists in AHQ how it integrates with their existing war plans without too much modification. That is what the PAF drools about.

Yep. If not F-16s, the next preferred solution was the Typhoon T3. Yes, it would've been the costliest solution, but the 24 aircraft would've built on the 75-odd F-16s relatively well with some interoperability. You could also take both platforms out to multi-national exercises to fine-tune procedures outside of your comfort zone. IIRC you could also deploy the AMRAAM C5 and JDAM from the T3.

 

[luciferdd]

If tomorrow 10 J-10Cs & 10 F-16Vs landed and India attacked -
The PAF pilots in the J-10 may be proficient in flying them but they would struggle with syncing datalinks, figuring out effectiveness in different parameters and working with other PAF assets to maximize the potential of that asset, apart from the fact that only the pilots trained to operate them from China would be able to fly them. At best those aircraft would be 50% mission effective and would realistically require 3 years before being fully understood by everyone from the pilots , technicians, AD controllers, tactics and strategists in AHQ. All of that is time and costs added beyond the price tag of the aircraft.

The 10 F-16Vs however would not have issues on datalinks, most of the weapons and flight performance would be known by all up and down the chain and even if the pilots that specifically trained on them were unavailable due to an emergency ANY Pilot from 5,9 or 11 sq would be able to start them up and take them up in the air to fight even if they aren't able to utilize the improved sensors and weapons to their fullest, they would understand most of the switchology and capability without the additional conversion. Technicians would still know how to service the engine for the most part, AD would know what to expect and strategists in AHQ how it integrates with their existing war plans without too much modification. That is what the PAF drools about.

In fact,Pakistan have chinese AWACS，chinese fighter,chinese LRSAM，chinese land-based Radar and chinese air defense system...the datalinks never be a problem.

 

[SQ8]

In fact,Pakistan have chinese AWACS，chinese fighter,chinese LRSAM，chinese land-based Radar and chinese air defense system...the datalinks never be a problem.

You think.. the Pakistani datalinks aren’t Chinese but home grown.

 

[GriffinsRule]

32-40 odd F-16s had the Indians soiling their dhotis for twenty years. Two squadrons of Typhoons with Meteor will have the same impact and would be a true stopgap till Azm comes to fruition.