JF-17 Block-3 -- Updates, News & Discussion

[arjunk]

All the specs that actually matter about each jet (EW capability, actual radar capabilities, RCS) are classified and will be so for the next 100 years so this argument is going nowhere.

 

[SQ8]

Can you reply to your own questions?

What is actually the price of a JF-17 BIII manufactured in Pakistan for the PAF? Do you have an exact figure?
And what significant payload advantage does the J-10 really have over the Thunder in A-A role in exactly? Range is not an issue anyway viz-a-viz India.


I agree with him that PAF should invest in JF-17 instead of buying J-10, another 4th gen, single engine fighter to add to the inventory...

I have an estimate but its around $28 million

Before I quantify the Range aspect- justify you bolded words. Why is range not an issue against India? What basis did you make that statement that contradicts every PAF effort to get a deep strike fighter?

 

[araz]

J10 Range: 2,250 km (1,400 mi, 1,210 nmi) [65][62]Combat range: 900 km (560 mi, 490 nmi) [65][62]Ferry range: 3,200 km (2,000 mi,

JFT Thunder Range: 1,320 km (820 mi, 710 nmi)Combat range: 800 km (500 mi, 430 nmi)Ferry range: 2,500 km (1,600 mi, 1,300 nmi) with 3 external drop tanks
These are the relative figures which I could get from Wiki which compares J10A with Block 2 JFT. I cannot say how accurate these are.
However the price bracket is 28 million to 60 million so is it worth the money spent in infrastructure, setup , training and acquisition costs is what I cannot work out. Also we should consider what IFR would add to the range debate. So again is J10 worth the expenditure when JFT with IFR can match all parameters at half the cost.

A

 

[TNT]

Some people here are raising the issue about usefulness of J10c for PAF. The thing is, JF 17 is not at par with J 10c and there is a considerable gap, usually same between a light weight and medium weight fighter.
We also need to look at our situation, we have very limited number of F 16s and among them very few are b52, that can be termed as modern. We cannot get more F16s, so the best option is J10c. How are we supposed to fight a war with a huge IAF while having 18 odd b52s? Even our modern F16s lack AESA. Addition of new platform should not necessarily mean addition of new capabilities, It can be to enhance and augment current capabilities.
The J10 can take role of mirages, with higher payload capability than mirage and better low altitude flight characteristics. It can augment our F16s in A2A. A combo of F16 and J10c would be deadly for rafales. The biggest advantage it brings is interoperability with the PLAAF.

 

[Blacklight]

SQ8,

What made you 'squawk'?

He wants you to be in the best of health, so in order to divert your attention, from your medical issues, he posted a non-one liner after a long time.

Thank You and Wish you the very best !

 

[Blacklight]

J10 Range: 2,250 km (1,400 mi, 1,210 nmi) [65][62]Combat range: 900 km (560 mi, 490 nmi) [65][62]Ferry range: 3,200 km (2,000 mi,

JFT Thunder Range: 1,320 km (820 mi, 710 nmi)Combat range: 800 km (500 mi, 430 nmi)Ferry range: 2,500 km (1,600 mi, 1,300 nmi) with 3 external drop tanks
These are the relative figures which I could get from Wiki which compares J10A with Block 2 JFT. I cannot say how accurate these are.
However the price bracket is 28 million to 60 million so is it worth the money spent in infrastructure, setup , training and acquisition costs is what I cannot work out. Also we should consider what IFR would add to the range debate. So again is J10 worth the expenditure when JFT with IFR can match all parameters at half the cost.

A

Lets not talk about the inherent limitations of a "light weight fighter," but how about the EW pkg + Ammo including Long range BVR, with The J10 = ?

 

[Aesterix]

China was asked to provide J-10 with Chinese engine in Musharraf era. They failed spectacularly at making a reliable engine. Only now they have resolved that issue and still nobody knows if they can produce enough own design engines for export or just providing for own air force.
That was the main hurdle why PAF didn't buy J-10.

The second problem was financial contribution towards R&D.

Initially Pakistan agreed for paying the Chinese manufacturer a certain percentage of R&D to make PAF specific changes. Then came "Democracy" and Asif Zardari gobbled up all those funds .
When that happened and PAF made no contribution, the Chinese had no reason to make any PAF specific changes, and lacked any other export customer and Chinese government didn't give export clearance.
That export clearance was only issued in 2019.

 

[araz]

Lets not talk about the inherent limitations of a "light weight fighter," but how about the EW pkg + Ammo including Long range BVR, with The J10 = ?

So are you saying that the PL15 cannot be mated to the JFT? This is the only aspect where it makes sense to procure the J10. However is there a chance that further modifications could have incorporated the tech in JFT?
A

 

[Blacklight]

So are you saying that the PL15 cannot be mated to the JFT? This is the only aspect where it makes sense to procure the J10. However is there a chance that further modifications could have incorporated the tech in JFT?
A

It can be mated.

 

[Trango Towers]

So are you saying that the PL15 cannot be mated to the JFT? This is the only aspect where it makes sense to procure the J10. However is there a chance that further modifications could have incorporated the tech in JFT?
A

This is incorrect.
If the jf17 can have a ASEA radar fitter why not the PL15. Sadly people make up stuff on the net

 

[denel]

So are you saying that the PL15 cannot be mated to the JFT? This is the only aspect where it makes sense to procure the J10. However is there a chance that further modifications could have incorporated the tech in JFT?
A

There is nothing that blk3 cannot do except for HMDS which i dont know why PAk folks disregarded for past 30 yrs despite having had the opportunity to mate it to their M3/5 upgrade program unless the french paid them to look other way.

 

[siegecrossbow]

This is incorrect.
If the jf17 can have a ASEA radar fitter why not the PL15. Sadly people make up stuff on the net

Even the J-11B could use PL-15 and it has a slotted array radar. Could it tap into the missile’s true potential? No. Could it use it? Definitely.

 

[GriffinsRule]

I have an estimate but its around $28 million

Before I quantify the Range aspect- justify you bolded words. Why is range not an issue against India? What basis did you make that statement that contradicts every PAF effort to get a deep strike fighter?

So J-10 will cost twice as much and offer just a marginal improvement over the Thunder? Sounds like complete misappropriation of funds.
PAF has never made any efforts to get a deep strike fighter in it's history. Everyone knows it will primarily be fighting IAF in its own airspace and strikes against India will be limited to airbases and targets near the border and in support of ground troops. "Deep strike" inside India is a fantasy and a fools errand given their ADGE.
Hitting targets a few hundred km inside India has always been possible even with A-5s and Mirages and now with extended ranged weapons already in service and better ones in the horizon the range is not a big deal.
Infact I would argue that spend those billions in making better munitions for the Thunder instead of buying a new platform with the same weapons kit that you already have access to.

 

[Trango Towers]

So J-10 will cost twice as much and offer just a marginal improvement over the Thunder? Sounds like complete misappropriation of funds.
PAF has never made any efforts to get a deep strike fighter in it's history. Everyone knows it will primarily be fighting IAF in its own airspace and strikes against India will be limited to airbases and targets near the border and in support of ground troops. "Deep strike" inside India is a fantasy and a fools errand given their ADGE.
Hitting targets a few hundred km inside India has always been possible even with A-5s and Mirages and now with extended ranged weapons already in service and better ones in the horizon the range is not a big deal.
Infact I would argue that spend those billions in making better munitions for the Thunder instead of buying a new platform with the same weapons kit that you already have access to.

I don't even know why people are discussing this when the chief said j10s bring nothing over the jf17. Subject closed

 

[CombatSurgeon]

There is nothing that blk3 cannot do except for HMDS which i dont know why PAk folks disregarded for past 30 yrs despite having had the opportunity to mate it to their M3/5 upgrade program unless the french paid them to look other way.

A couple of serving PAF pilots said that one of the reasons PAF didn't go for the AIM-9X was the cost. US willingness, or unwillingness, wasn't a great factor at that stage. Higher ups decided to buy a large BVR stock and make do with the cheaper AIM-9M/L missiles for the time being till the coffers filled up bcoz both were of the same cost bracket. Unluckily, the money situation didn't improve. We had to shelve the option of additional Vipers as well as 9Xrays.