JF-17 Block-3 -- Updates, News & Discussion

[Kabotar]

Where does our AESA for into this?

Hmm, makes sense. BLK 3 is already causing sleepless nights in the Nazi land

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

What we're up against are Mirage 2000s Mig 29s and Su-30's.

By the next year India wil start to recieve Rafales too. It won't take much time for Rafale to be operatioal. Technically our Blk IIIs will be against Rafales too
https://thediplomat.com/2019/11/france-hands-over-three-rafale-fighter-jets-to-india/

Tejas Mark 1-A is also trying for competiion with PAF
https://idrw.org/tejas-mark-1a-to-be-superior-to-pafs-f-16-and-jf-17s-ada-chief/#more-217007

We are looking at 100+ AESA equipped fighters in the next 5 years.

Does this include F16s too?

 

[serenity]

You are correct.

Chinese are working with us on AZM and Pakistan is working on TF-X project with Turks.

Not only this, PAC is also engaged in collaboration with CETIC on a commercial airliner and an indigenous fast moving UCAV. A lot is happening at PAC. Stay tuned

What you say sounds realistic. I'm shocked there is no PL-10 and HMD for block 3. But already the AESA cost so much and if budget is smaller while Pakistan need to spend money in other projects, I can understand. AESA and PL-15 will improve by biggest gap. The other thing are also expensive but not as useful as AESA and PL-15. HMD and PL-10 maybe can be introduced.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

No word on South African AAMs. As for EW suit. Its a topic which is evaded by officials every time is talked about in a civilian setting. Cant speak intelligently about it.



I don't think ANYONE here on PDF has seen block 3. So the talk of unusual curve might be unfounded.

As for horizontal stabilizer. I will reconfirm. Skipped my mind.



I disagree.

HMD is DEFINITELY planned. It is something which can integrated later on aswell. When F-16 block 40's came out they had no HMD capability. With the induction of Block 50's, USAF gave its entire fleet of block 40/42's HMD capability.

We are looking towards a few Turkish and Chinese options for HMD.

As for HOBS capability, JF-17 does not carry a weapon which can be integrated with HMD like AIM-9X. Yet if i may add.



Ground clearance was never a problem. There were other issues we cannot discuss. But. Its solved and Block 1/2's are now carrying RAAD's.



Yes. Absolutely.



PAF has officially started working with Turkish on their next generation 5th generation fighter.

We are potentially looking at 2 5th Generation fighters in PAF's service by 2030. One from China and One Turk-PAK venture along with JF-17s (all upgraded) and F-16s.



Not with JF-17.

I think any delay in the HMD/S is purely technical. In addition to features and performance (which is critical since we need it to cue targets properly so that we can fire HOBS AAM), safety is another. The weight distribution for one (vis-a-vis the hardware). My guess? Literally no one is willing to sell us an off the shelf solution, so we've been trying to get an original design.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Why has it taken so long, almost 3 years from BII to BIII if the incrementals are so small? Does a new radar and FBW system take 3 years to validate?

It wasn't like they had settled on the current configuration of everything going into block III at that time. Initially they were evaluating between different competing AESA radars...and then there was also the homegrown AESA thrown into the mix. Then there's also the decision to go with the swash plate configuration or the one with the side mounted additional AESA panels(probably more configurations), etc. All of that just for the radar...I imagine similar decisions had to be made for other avionics(choosing between competing ones available or coming up with a new one if those don't satisfy). One has to take into consideration the possible threats faced by these jets for the duration of their service and balance it with the costs. So ideally they would try to go for as much latest and greatest tech as they can without running into exorbitant costs. Planning for the next decade or so takes time...u can't rush these choices of radars, munitions, EW suite, and other avionics. Once all of this is settled and u have a configuration that u want to proceed with...that's when integration and testing of it all begins. So idk where this 3 year figure is coming from...but based on all the threads on PDF I never read anywhere a final configuration that was settled on 3 years ago...and was being tested ever since.

 

[khanasifm]

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/video-of-acm-tanvir-mehmood-ahmed-interview.14008/

 

[PakAlp]

Even with expectations lowered, the mind wasn't ready for missing HMD/HOBS in Jeff blk 3.

That IS quite a let down. (If true)

With that I understand that many on this forum are going to defend even if CAC/PAC merely roles out a newly painted Blk2 as a Blk3.

'The PAF knows what's it's doing'
'It matches the operational requirements'
'HMD/HOBS will chip in later'

Statements like above while being factually true won't help much to relieve disappointments that are a result of false expectations created on the 5000 pages of this thread.

If it has just one more hardpoint and no HMD/S, for me it's just a blk2 with a 3 year delay and much hype.

I would be disappointed if it's just the block 2 with Aesa. We waited 3 years for this and prototype is being tested, so it normal to assume it will be a game changing 4.5 generation light weight jet like the Gripen NG.

I am expecting block 3 with bigger wing area, same engine, aesa radar, hmd, hobs and Irst, better jamming capabilities, more composite material. The pl15 missile can be added when its available.

Eventually this is the concept which paf wants to adopt in phases without paying $85-100M a plan

When will jf17 reach this capability?. 2035 when the world will be conducting 6th generation jets. We need something like this to counter Rafael

 

[AsifIjaz]

If FBL, aesa, chin mounted hp and increase payload are the only changes in the block 3 then surely there is going to be a block 3b or a block 4 in the future.
Block 3 as without hmd, HOBS, rd93MA or a better ecm package does not cut in. Increase wing area, 9 hard points etc etc require drastic redesign of the airframe whereas a hmd or a hobs will not require that. Similarly rd93MA if its not too different weight and dimensions wise, should not be a problem as well.
But keeping rafael and super mki in mind, I hope block 3 is not sans hmd, hobs or a better engine

 

[PakShaheen79]

Ok Guys! I am bit lost here. From where we have learnt that there is going to be no PL-10 and HMD in Block-III? Which official source has confirmed that; Chinese or Pakistani?

 

[Ali_Baba]

Ok Guys! I am bit lost here. From where we have learnt that there is going to be no PL-10 and HMD in Block-III? Which official source has confirmed that; Chinese or Pakistani?

Random keyboard warriors making claims as i have said before. No one knows anything about block III at the forum, all we have is official quotes from various PAF officials and a few aviation journalists to go on. Best to ingore what people are saying of what it "will" have and "wont" have as they are no position to know for sure on anything.

 

[khanasifm]

From what I understand 6th gen will add more sensors, direct energy weapons, optional unmanned operations, more sensor fusion all these things can be added to 5th gen as well if there is space and power available. But what it will bring new technologies and processes that will simplify maintainance as our adversary will always have more assets than us we can naturalize their advantage of our assets require less down time during sorties. ACM did say that they are aiming for 5.5gen.

TFX will replace Turkey's F16s, if we are going the same route than it means NGF with deep strike and highly survivable ability will replace Mirages and JF17 will only replace F7s.

1 please donot compare third world with EU and America stop there is no need
2 paf is focused on its environment and its competition for min deterrence
3 no need for drama this is not a drama anyone with even a year in defense Industry experience know what it takes to develop and deliver and pac is just staring with $$ limitations. All these feature being expected from block 3 were keyboard warrior wish list including me and I think eventually will come but at much realistic pace bottom line like block 1/2/3... feature will show up and intergraywd while production of base platform continue

 

[Kabotar]

1 please donot compare third world with EU and America stop there is no need
2 paf is focused on its environment and its competition for min deterrence
3 no need for drama this is not a drama anyone with even a yer in defense Industry experience know what it takes

As I said we don't need to have every bell and whistle from get go as long as there is space and electric capacity but simplified maintenance and shorter turnaround times should be targeted from get go.

 

[jedijedi]

I saw a few guys claiming block 3 having a different design and hardpoints. That is not all the case.

JF-17 Block 3 is IDENTICAL to block 2 in almost all aspects externally.

That is to be expected.

The major differences include;

1) Revamped software to support and handle a variety of missions (ie. SEAD/DEAD)
2) New weapons such as PL-15, RAAD will be the highlights for block 3.
3) Improved engine performance. Turbines have been reworked to produce added thrust.
4) AESA radar (cannot disclose which one)
5) Turkish EW suite
6) Strengthened abdomen and wing roots to carry heavy weapons such as RAAD and PL-15s.
7) Recc pods will be fully operational.
8) Upgraded Link capability similar to F-16s. All JF-17s are able to communicate with SAAB's securely. Each JF-17 pilot would know what other JF-17 can see and what he is up to in a given mission. What are his fuel levels, what is the status of his weapons. It's a fully integrated system just like F-16's link 16 which Wg Cmdr Nouman Ali Khan leveraged to execute a mission beautifully.

Very realistic. A source also told me changes in Block 3 structure are supposed to not only save weight but also strengthen the structure further. I will not delve into details as I do not want to quote something wrong as I am not an aeronautical engineer and this discussion took place a long time back so my memory is a bit shaky at this age.

In other words, IAF will be faced Block 52 category weapons systems that too in mass numbers in just 5 years from now. Production of Block 2 is slowing down and Block 3 will be produced from February 2020 at PAC.

That's an optimistic timeline.

The first two Block 3's are currently undergoing FCFs (functional check flights) and are expected to join PAF in February 2020.

I would have doubted this seriously but this doesn't seem too far fetched now as a reliable source has given me reason to believe that at least the formal maiden flight has taken place.

On the export side, 08 Block 2's are to be delivered to Nigeria in 2020. Qatar and Malaysia are eyeing for Block 3.

Nigeria flying JF17 is not just a sale but further free marketing of the fighter. The second part also makes sense. One would expect Malaysia and Qatar to be shrewd considering their neighborhood forces and not going for a version that would go obsolete as soon as it is delivered.

In a nutshell, JF-17 program has been a blessing for Pakistan Air Force. Its only a matter of time when we will have access to EU hardware. The Block 4 is already on the charts and it will be nothing short of a Rafale as far as current plans are concerned.

It certainly has been a blessing.

I would be shitting my pants if I was IAF.

I would expect IAF to have been burning the midnight oil studying PAF's short, medium and long term plans from the night of 27th Feb. We should never underestimate the adversary and use hyperbole like that. The way 27th Feb was one sided, regardless of the twitter troll army India launched to defend IAF's honor with stupid analyses galore and hash tags like doosra banda, shahzazuddin etc, powers that be in India will have raked IAF's top brass over the coals behind closed doors. With the ACM at the time (BS Dhanoa) retired, IAF can now implement radical changes (to overcome flaws found in Feb) and attribute them to new chief's doctrine to dispel the notion of them being connected to 27th Feb lessons. New ACM Bhadauria and his subordinates would be hell bent on not just matching but beating PAF in every possible way should there be another encounter in the near future. I repeat, IAF absolutely cannot afford another 27th Feb, it would be catastrophic for their image. Should that happen, IAF and/or powers in India would likely escalate to the next rung to test their luck at a much larger scope to feign the notion of parity and that would be extremely dangerous for both countries. PAF knows what IAF must've felt and hence we did not see them pursuing the Su30 case to rub it further in the face of IAF.

By the next year India wil start to recieve Rafales too. It won't take much time for Rafale to be operatioal. Technically our Blk IIIs will be against Rafales too
https://thediplomat.com/2019/11/france-hands-over-three-rafale-fighter-jets-to-india/

Tejas Mark 1-A is also trying for competiion with PAF
https://idrw.org/tejas-mark-1a-to-be-superior-to-pafs-f-16-and-jf-17s-ada-chief/#more-217007

Rafale is indeed a supremely capable fighter and MK1A has a lot of changes too over the original product. I am glad PAF isn't sleeping and granted block 3 isn't tickling all our fantasies, it still gives us numbers, reliability, serviceability and greater independence!

 

[Kabotar]

You are correct.

Chinese are working with us on AZM and Pakistan is working on TF-X project with Turks.

Not only this, PAC is also engaged in collaboration with CETIC on a commercial airliner and an indigenous fast moving UCAV. A lot is happening at PAC. Stay tuned

It seems 2010s was the decade for PN 2020s will be for PAF.

 

[StormBreaker]

It seems 2010s was the decade for PN 2020s will be for PAF.

2020s will be more like for Tri-services