JF-17 Block-3 -- Updates, News & Discussion

[khanasifm]

The team was indeed caught napping. BLK 3 was supposed to fly by August, then Oct and now It's pushed to December/ January.

Someone who has worked in the industry would know such program and projects have many variables and factors so nothing new

 

[Dazzler]

Delays in a project when we are clearly hearing about an own venture in AESA radar is understandable. Even if we get delayed by 6 months and we have a plane with a good quality AESA Radar I would be happy.
A

Perhaps the "higher ups" of Thunder project who were not at all pleased at delays were not aware of that.

 

[GeraltofRivia]

Perhaps the "higher ups" of Thunder project who were not at all pleased at delays were not aware of that.

Possibly the higher up would be asked to make a decision as to whether go live now or delay to incorporate the x number of enhancements the project team has identified the would significantly boost the capacity. It’s trade off that the decision makers are meant to weigh up.

 

[araz]

Perhaps the "higher ups" of Thunder project who were not at all pleased at delays were not aware of that.

So you are telling us all that the higher ups were not pleased at the unforeseen delays in the project. What did they do and whose rear end got kicked in the bargain? Or was it a decision of timely induction vs enhancements or rectifications of problems? I dont know but you may know better than me.
A

 

[PakFactor]

Perhaps the "higher ups" of Thunder project who were not at all pleased at delays were not aware of that.

Can you detail more your message was cryptic.

 

[jedijedi]

As for Block-llls, it should be expected that these aircraft have an improved engine, consisting of FADEC, higher fuel efficiency, greater TBO (3000 hours) and greater thrust for acceleration.

Is there any information to substantiate what appears to be a wish at this point in time. We lack the industrial infrastructure to influence any significant customization through indigenous R&D. We can however still hope for some Engine related change as China is desperate to build reliable Engines for their own platforms like J10, J20 and J31. JF17 offers Chinese another test bed for their locally designed engines. Russia would not want to lose a cash cow like JF17 and may offer an improved variant of their own to counter any Chinese replacement. In summary, PAF is poised to benefit from any such duel. For any compromise on the Engine front, PAF is likely going to gain expertise that will benefit us in the long run.

JF 17 block 3 should fly soon, tired of waiting. Strategic scenario around us, is changing a lot & fast, very fast. Our enemies are trying their best and our best performance is kartarpur. We need a fighter to meet ever rising latest technical challenges and our Navy need a ICBM or at least cruise missile capable fleet of submarines urgently. We need to develop MIRV capable more missiles like Ababeel.
But it seems we are sleeping, we don't remember what's happening in Kashmir with youth, killing mercilessly the boys and rapping our sisters and daughters. They are destroying our Masjids and we are spending on gurdwaras and mundars.

Let us not be naive about this, spending on Gurdwaras and Mandirs is the least of our budgetary woes and some would say it is too little too late.
We are spending billions on garbage collection when everyone can stop littering but how realistic is it to expect our nation to build a collective national conscience for this basic civil effort? We are spending hundreds of billions on importing military equipment when we could spend tens of billions to support R&D locally in our universities, send scholars abroad, create industrial partnerships to build industrial prowess. We have cut higher education budget by almost half which makes me lose more sleep than giving our minorities the respect and attention they deserve. As the proverb goes "hazaron khwahishen esi....."

Dont worry! Neither are our enemies working at lightening pace nor are we sleeping. We just do not open our mouth and shout to the world every time we make a breakthrough. We work quietly along and when we need to, reveal our capability. JFT block 3 is either in testing phase or in final phase of development. However a lot of testing is required before you validate. Along the lines improvements come along or minor tweaking which then requires retesting. But all is in hand.
It seems to me, at least, and my apologies if am incorrect, that you do not have any idea of who our enemies are. Dont go for conspiracy theories and we dont want to irk the world just yet. So for our "friends " next door the range of our MIRVs is enough as is the range of most of outr Ballistic missiles. You need to be cautious in expressing and showing capabilities beyond the scope of current conflict as it excites unnecessary attention and you want to escape that attention till it is unavoidable. Beleive me when the time comes you will find Pak forces ready.
A

You make a fair point. I do not know if we should even worry about the fact that there is no news (good or bad) about block 3. I am rather relieved that the great firewall of China is working well in conjunction with PAF discipline to keep everything under wraps. PAF has no immediate capacity or capability threat vis a vis IAF and the more time passes, the greater chance of PAF integrating more changes in the new variant as Chinese aerospace prowess is increasing at a blistering pace. IAF may appear lax with Tejas but they are making over 50 changes with the Mk1A which would be the benchmark for the Mk2. We have to be smart and not emotional about the most important aspects like defense!

 

[Dazzler]

Design and Development of S-Band TRR Module for Phased-Array Radars SMRIMMS

http://www.nust.edu.pk/Research/Research Linkages/Pages/National.aspx

 

[JamD]

Design and Development of S-Band TRR Module for Phased-Array Radars SMRIMMS

http://www.nust.edu.pk/Research/Research Linkages/Pages/National.aspx

Thank you for sharing this. Looking at this list made me very happy. There are some very interesting projects in there. I was of the opinion no real research was done in universities and only token projects were given by NESCOM. I stand corrected. NUST seems to be the place to be for research. The faculty advising this research also seems to be quite impressive. Research: Actual research and not just garbage research like "design and construction of quadcopter".

Most NESCOM projects I had seen at IST (@Goenitz in your time too?) were token projects with little application that most students stayed away from. Also after some poor return on R&D investment in universities a lot of funding was stopped. However, this link shows that at some point that trend reversed. I had always hoped IST would be doing all this research but it clearly isn't there yet.

@Bilal Khan (Quwa) here's something to counter all my "that guy"s.

 

[The Eagle]

Thank you for sharing this. Looking at this list made me very happy. There are some very interesting projects in there. I was of the opinion no real research was done in universities and only token projects were given by NESCOM. I stand corrected. NUST seems to be the place to be for research. The faculty advising this research also seems to be quite impressive. Research: Actual research and not just garbage research like "design and construction of quadcopter".

Most NESCOM projects I had seen at IST (@Goenitz in your time too?) were token projects with little application that most students stayed away from. Also after some poor return on R&D investment in universities a lot of funding was stopped. However, this link shows that at some point that trend reversed. I had always hoped IST would be doing all this research but it clearly isn't there yet.

@Bilal Khan (Quwa) here's something to counter all my "that guy"s.

Few students recently came up with micro processor of its own kind and their aim/targeted market is Military Grade. Couple of demonstrations are gone very well & as far as I know, there are approvals to continue. So in over all aspect, keen interest & encourage rising by manifolds that all they need was support & appreciations. I will only mention that Babus been ruining everything in past but it appears that there time is over finally.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Thank you for sharing this. Looking at this list made me very happy. There are some very interesting projects in there. I was of the opinion no real research was done in universities and only token projects were given by NESCOM. I stand corrected. NUST seems to be the place to be for research. The faculty advising this research also seems to be quite impressive. Research: Actual research and not just garbage research like "design and construction of quadcopter".

Most NESCOM projects I had seen at IST (@Goenitz in your time too?) were token projects with little application that most students stayed away from. Also after some poor return on R&D investment in universities a lot of funding was stopped. However, this link shows that at some point that trend reversed. I had always hoped IST would be doing all this research but it clearly isn't there yet.

@Bilal Khan (Quwa) here's something to counter all my "that guy"s.

There are quite a few UAV, AUV and RPA/V programs on that list, like a solid 1/4 or 1/3 of the DGMP and NESCOM projects it seems. Bodes well for the loyal wingman drone dream.

Anyways, I was talking to Usman Shabbir a few months ago about the last MoDP report. He was of the view that we the DGMP was sourcing a lot of materials and systems (both locally and from abroad) to make a radar of some type (they had listed a local VHF radar, for example, but this research isn't necessarily tied to that).

 

[Bilal.]

Few students recently came up with micro processor of its own kind and their aim/targeted market is Military Grade. Couple of demonstrations are gone very well & as far as I know, there are approvals to continue. So in over all aspect, keen interest & encourage rising by manifolds that all they need was support & appreciations. I will only mention that Babus been ruining everything in past but it appears that there time is over finally.

how did they got it fabed?

 

[The Eagle]

how did they got it fabed?

For open discussion, that was a University level initiative. Interestingly, the chip itself is faster than whatever we can have easily on the market. Demonstration was done on perfect shaped fabed chip but I can only say that, delivered results more than expected.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

how did they got it fabed?

I'd say, near-term, they keep that info to themselves

But in seriousness, I doubt it's domestic. Still, original design/architecture work is a solid start (I had seen another company at IDEAS 2018 doing that as well, but they said they sourced the production work overseas).

 

[Bilal.]

For open discussion, that was a University level initiative. Interestingly, the chip itself is faster than whatever we can have easily on the market. Demonstration was done on perfect shaped fabed chip but I can only say that, delivered results more than expected.

In a world that is increasingly restrictive by ITAR, BAFA and what not acquiring core technologies like this is absolutely essential and crucial.

I'd say, near-term, they keep that info to themselves

But in seriousness, I doubt it's domestic.

could be a fab from iron brother... but serious consideration needs to be given to maybe acquiring an up to 90nm fab... not so cutting edge and expensive any more but good enough for our needs...

 

[The Eagle]

I a world that is increasingly restrictive by ITAR, BAFA and what not acquiring core technologies like this is absolutely essential and crucial.



could be a fab from iron brother...

A person like me who isn't all about how to create one chip as such or how it is done but as if I am an operator and can understand its quality per response as well as speed & expected calculating time; I was like Yes, we are on correct course... a bit late or slow having many restrains but still, it sparked towards more in-house solution of critical tech. Where & who fabed, is left in that demo room.