JF-17 Block-3 -- Updates, News & Discussion

[PakAlp]

guys don't you think we are expecting a lot too much from blk3 .soo mich hype has gathered around.i am afraid we might get disappointed.it wil be a step forward but you are not getting generation ahead.just like game of thrones(a silly comparison i know) but we waited for 2 years.last episode is yet to air and people 750k have already signed a petition to rewrite.da whole season

New engine powerful engine
Aesa
Irst
Hobs
Composites to make the air frame lighter
4.5th generation avionics, jammers

Is not too much expectations

Bigger wing area and change of frame in to a medium weight is too much expectation and this will not happen. We already have f16 for that

 

[khanasifm]

Confirmed aesa, all digital flight control, new weapons, hmd and new ew, not confirmed additional hard points and irst

 

[khanasifm]

Confirmed aesa, all digital flight control, new weapons, hmd and new ew, not confirmed additional hard points and irst

Stealth changes?? Structural changes

Chin pylons talked about for long time so most probably

 

[blain2]

we are being too much patriotic here. F-16 with bigger engine and better radar is way ahead of what this nimble and smaller framed JF 17 with a small engine and modest radar can achieve.

it is indeed a game changer that it has bridged the gap between F7s , mirages and F-16s

True but JF-17s in large numbers with AESA and longer range standoff weapons are a pretty awesome complement to whatever the F-16s can offer.

 

[PakAlp]

Stealth changes?? Structural changes

No stealth changes and maybe a minor structural changes. It will still be a jf17

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[PakAlp]

One worrying situation for paf is the Rafael induction by iaf. We have to accept Rafael will be a game changer for the Indians. It's an amazing technology and very expensive addition and it will improve iaf. We cannot deny that.

Pakistan need to get more f16 block 52s or block 60s and that seems unlikely in the near future. We have the J10C option but that is similar to f16block 52s so paf won't go for that. The only realistic option is Jf17 block 3 armed to the teeth and induction of the 5th generation fighter jet which again looks unlikely until 2030. Chinese j31 project has stalled and the Turkish TFX will only fly in 2023. They won't be ready until another decade+

This again takes us back to the JF17 block 3 and this is why many PDF members are hopeful it will be a game changer fighter plane which can defend against all Indian planes including Rafael. So I don't really blame all the fan boys

However just for argument sake the jf17 block 3 cannot defend our territory against the Rafael then we alhamdulillah always have the option to purchase 50+ J10c as they are available

Sent from my SM-N910T using Defence.pk mobile app

 

[notorious_eagle]

we are being too much patriotic here. F-16 with bigger engine and better radar is way ahead of what this nimble and smaller framed JF 17 with a small engine and modest radar can achieve.

it is indeed a game changer that it has bridged the gap between F7s , mirages and F-16s

Sir

You're forgetting something major here. The smaller nimble JF17 is data linked to the AWACS and Ground Controlled Radars, and can see as far as the AWACS allows it too. This is the advantage of force multipliers, and JF17 is perfectly designed to exploit the advantages of the force multipliers.

 

[PakAlp]

I have been reading PDF posts on project AZM and Pakistan making their own 5th generation fighter jet. This is just a dream for us. Do we have 50Billion+ to start our own project. Of course not. Even till 2050 we won't be able to do that.

The only realistic option is the Turkish tfx which cost Turkey 50billion or wait till the Chinese government/military announces it wants another downscale fighter of J20, like the j31. Only then we could join the project.

The jf17 block 3 was made for Pakistan and for export orders and this is why Chinese government invested billions as it's good business. Keep in mind we didn't buy 50 jf17s but we will be buying 250+ and on top countries like Myanmar, Nigeria bought it. Also we have Egypt, Iran, Malaysia and other countries interested.

Why would China invest 50+billion in to another 5th generation fighter for only Pakistan and we will buy how many? 50 planes. I doubt any other country can afford the 5th generation planes until 2035+. This is the reason I believe the j31 has stalled as China is investing all money in to the J20s. Until that project matures and Chinese military wants another 5th generation plane to replace all 3rd generation and 4th generation planes then they will start a new project. This will be the time for us to join the project and start our JF for the 5th generation.

 

[PakShaheen79]

Project Azm is going to be a multilateral project as far as the inclusion of vendors for multiple subsystems are concerned and this has been stated by PAF. Some help will come from China and other sources. PAF wants to be on the driving seat (Project management). Technical challenges aside, a project of this magnitude also requires management prowess in finance, supply chain, quality control and human resource etc. Being a disciplined force, PAF think it will able to control all those aspects accordingly with minimum to no loss of time and resources in case of any change in design goals occur. This is also going to be a massive learning curve and experience gained from Thunder is going to contribute as well. Once completed, PAF will not only be a professional combat force but also a well-developed aircraft manufacturer giving us near 100% self-reliance in this domain of national security.

 

[LKJ86]

Project Azm is going to be a multilateral project as far as the inclusion of vendors for multiple subsystems are concerned and this has been stated by PAF. Some help will come from China and other sources. PAF wants to be on the driving seat (Project management). Technical challenges aside, a project of this magnitude also requires management prowess in finance, supply chain, quality control and human resource etc. Being a disciplined force, PAF think it will able to control all those aspects accordingly with minimum to no loss of time and resources in case of any change in design goals occur. This is also going to be a massive learning curve and experience gained from Thunder is going to contribute as well. Once completed, PAF will not only be a professional combat force but also a well-developed aircraft manufacturer giving us near 100% self-reliance in this domain of national security.

India is very experienced in such projects.

 

[Army research]

Sir

You're forgetting something major here. The smaller nimble JF17 is data linked to the AWACS and Ground Controlled Radars, and can see as far as the AWACS allows it too. This is the advantage of force multipliers, and JF17 is perfectly designed to exploit the advantages of the force multipliers.

If only we can get data link BVR like AIM120D and meteor for our JF17 ( current SD10 basic is not ) , this will allow thunder to keep its radar off , fire missiles and immediate turn back as the data link missiles are then guided by AWAC

 

[Mrc]

If only we can get data link BVR like AIM120D and meteor for our JF17 ( current SD10 basic is not ) , this will allow thunder to keep its radar off , fire missiles and immediate turn back as the data link missiles are then guided by AWAC

Than u even don't need thunder... U need uavs patrolling skies that can be recruited by awaacs and asked to launch at in coming fighters


I really hope we are working on buddy uav project like that

 

[Armchair]

I think it is a mistake to go with a J-31 style frame. It would have been much better to go with a Mirage III/V basic layout - a simple delta. Would be stealthy from the basic shape itself. A small internal bay and twin RD-33s. A simple design like this could be developed in far less time and with far less resources.

We would basically then have a Carver like plane, what South Africa originally wanted to design. This plane would be the best plane for low level strike in the planet, flying insanely low, given the excellent characteristics of the Mirage III/V/2000 for low level penetration (PAF even managed to "sink" an aircraft carrier in a mock battle with USN using this special tactic of the Mirage).

You would also have a platform that is simple, robuts and cheap to produce. From an air combat perspective, it would provide an ideal airframe for BVR combat from a high altitude and high speed vantage which would make it deadly in that role. Such a plane would also have been the perfect complement to JF-17s and F-16s (if not MiG-35s).

You would basically use a larger and more powerful version of the avionics, EW and radar going into the Block 3, keeping development simple.

@MastanKhan @airomerix @Khafee @denel @messiach (and any others) would love your input on this.

@PakAlp

 

[Deino]

I think it is a mistake to go with a J-31 style frame. It would have been much better to go with a Mirage III/V basic layout - a simple delta. Would be stealthy from the basic shape itself. A small internal bay and twin RD-33s. A simple design like this could be developed in far less time and with far less resources.

We would basically then have a Carver like plane, what South Africa originally wanted to design. This plane would be the best plane for low level strike in the planet, flying insanely low, given the excellent characteristics of the Mirage III/V/2000 for low level penetration (PAF even managed to "sink" an aircraft carrier in a mock battle with USN using this special tactic of the Mirage).

You would also have a platform that is simple, robuts and cheap to produce. From an air combat perspective, it would provide an ideal airframe for BVR combat from a high altitude and high speed vantage which would make it deadly in that role. Such a plane would also have been the perfect complement to JF-17s and F-16s (if not MiG-35s).

You would basically use a larger and more powerful version of the avionics, EW and radar going into the Block 3, keeping development simple.

@MastanKhan @airomerix @Khafee @denel @messiach (and any others) would love your input on this.

@PakAlp

Pardon to say so ... IMO a stupid idea since it won't be a fifth generation type, even more since the PAF needs a multirole type.

But, do we need to discuss such what if ideas in a Block 3 thread?

 

[Armchair]

Pardon to say so ... IMO a stupid idea since it won't be a fifth generation type, even more since the PAF needs a multirole type.

But, do we need to discuss such what if ideas in a Block 3 thread?

Fair enough, I'm out of topic... however I don't see it as a stupid idea:

The first point you make is "it won't be a fifth generation type" - why not? Why can you not have a pure delta fifth generation type?

Second point you make - it needs to be multirole - guess what the Mirage 2000 is - its multirole. One of the very best multirole aircraft in recent history in fact.

I'll end this here and let the thread continue.