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JF-17 Block-3 -- Updates, News & Discussion

FC1 is now using an all new FBO flight controls - reported through CADI - now been tested on DS. I am surprised this should be the focus of debate but all i am seeing are presumptions and schoolboy speculations. @All.
 
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FC1 is now using an all new FBO flight controls - reported through CADI - now been tested on DS. I am surprised this should be the focus of debate but all i am seeing are presumptions and schoolboy speculations. @All.
What's FBO?
Who's CADI?
What's DS?
 
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Why do you keep doing it over and over and over again?
Who are you trying to convince? Is someone on PDF going to make that change for you? or do you think chief of air staff is reading your posts?

If you wanted to make a point, you did that a decade ago, now stop posting similar pics with markers in every thread highlighting space for additional hardpoints.

You see this pic below? there is enough room to add two more "hang" points, but the question is does he have the strength to carry them? and NO this is not a weird example, it works exactly like that in the jets too.

now stop being stupid.

6-Wushan.jpg




View attachment 586783

Looking at this picture jf has enough wingspan to add additional Hp like f-16 plus under intake hp bring it to same as f-16 11 Hp
 
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@khanasifm

PLEASE ... why you you constantly have to derail this News & Update thread - as well as other thready - with your IMO stupid, boring and by now almost nasty discussion on "additional hardpoints", "more missiles" and so on?!

You already have a more or less own thread for discussing these IMO highly speculative issues ... it annoying.

Let's wait and see, if the Block 3 will have additional pylons or not, but I'm sure the PAF and PAC Kamra knows their job much better than you and if they don't add more pylons they will have a certain reason beyond your wishful thinking.

Honestly, I have enough to read this all over again and again.
 
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I posted this on other thread, but didn't get a response, instead same poster just copy pasted the "additional hardpoints" photo on the BLK 3 thread:


If only adding hardpoints was as easy as putting lines on a picture... you do realize the further away from the root of the wing you get the greater the moment of any added weight is, putting stress on the wing structure. Also the wing chord tapers as we move along the wingspan therefore less structural strength to add heavier weight.

It requires considerable amount of strength improvement in the whole airframe and specifically the wings to add extra hardpoints. Which all adds to the weight of the plane, and if the engine is not improved to account for the additional weight the overall performance of the jet decreases.
 
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Fly by Optics! ??? If true this is huge.

What are the benefits of fly by optics???
Fly-by-Optical Fiber. So, instead of traditional wiring, you're using fiberoptic cables to handle communication between the plane's flight computers. Benefits include more information transfer, faster transfer, better durability and reliability, etc.
 
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View attachment 586783

Looking at this picture jf has enough wingspan to add additional Hp like f-16 plus under intake hp bring it to same as f-16 11 Hp
yes but it also depends on the max load strength the wing is designed for; additional pylon means structurally a more strengthen wing and assembly to the body; pivot/fulcrum principle
 
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In regard to discussion about additional Hard Point for Thunder; I will urge members that we already have a separate thread for such topic. However, any member's enthusiasm, curiosity & interest shall not be demean in way of non-civilized commentary. I do agree that repetition shall be avoided but we can redirect the member/topic and point to the right place for discussion without provoking each other.

Regards,
 
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Fly by Light in Aircraft Systems – Analysis

5156 words (21 pages) Essay in Engineering

07/08/17 Engineering Reference this

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Fibre optic cables are widely used in telecommunication and network. It is known for its properties which is lighter than standard copper wire, able to carry multiple signals in single cable, no electrical current involved in the cable, cheaper than copper cable because it is made from silica (glass), and does not

List of abbreviations

  1. FBW- Fly-by-Wire
  2. FBL- Fly-by-Light
[paste:font size="5"]https://www.slideshare.net/allanlee/sfp-trrx-selection-guidejan2014)

  1. AVIONIC MULTIFIBER ARRAY CONNECTOR (AVMAC)
Multifiber Array Connector II or MACII that was being use is going to be replace with the new Avionic Multifiber Array Connector or AVMAC. The new AVMAC was developed with AT&T with the purpose of upgrading the old MACII for fibre optic connection. The main function of new AVMAC is to be the termination point of fibre optic ribbon assembly. Ribbon fibre is basically a group of fibres, 12 or 18, arranged into a linear array. This ribbon fibre will be jacketed, wrap with buffer coat and strength member which will be very similar to the single channel fibre as MDA/TA-DAC approved. The AVMAC is a device which will connect the array of fibre in the ribbon to hold each individual fibre so that it can be align and easier to install
0022606.008.png

to the other mating half.

Figure: Cross-sectional of ribbon fibre assembly which consist of 12 fibre optic cables.

  1. SPLICES
During maintenance and installation, fibre optic needs to be splice to fit. After testing several fibre optic mechanical splices and only two mechanical splices that achieved MDA/TA-DAC approval. Although the two mechanical splices is considered to date fit their installation and maintenance approach, it is still cannot withstand the aircraft environment and none is consider as the right mechanical splices for aviation grade quality. The reasons for this result came from several points of the disadvantage of using market-ready mechanical splices in aircraft environment. First reason, fibre optic cable need to remove the buffer and the strength member in order to do splicing. If the buffer and strength member removed from the cable, every mechanical protection for the glass fibre ends at the splicing. Second, having the glass fibre exposed to the atmosphere, moisture in the air will get into the micro-cracks that naturally exist and will further expand the severity of the cracks into larger cracks. Increase in optical power loss as the micro-cracks elongated and propagated. Lastly, apart from previous problems with market-ready mechanical splices, it is also imposed a fire hazard due to this fusion splicing creates spark while being use on aircraft. Regulation made it clear that any devices that create spark or open flame are not permitted on fuelled aircraft. Due to the disadvantages mentioned, MDA-TA has develop their own designs for their fibre optic mechanical and chemical bond splices.

The new invention of splices/connectors would be a small, one piece construction that is lightweight and could withstand aircraft environment. The new connectors that were design with environmentally sealed construction should be accepting a single mated pin and socket termini for either fibre optic cable or standard copper wire. The connectors is very adaptable and can be install anywhere directly onto fibre optic cable that might need repairs such as a splices, modification or maintenance purpose. Next figure will show the example of the newly design connectors to fit aircraft usage and regulation.

0022606.009.png

Figure: Fibre Optic/ Electrical Single-Channel Splice/ Connector/ Feedthrough


i posted this article so lay man like me can get info about it

Fibre optic cables are widely used in telecommunication and network. It is known for its properties which is lighter than standard copper wire, able to carry multiple signals in single cable, no electrical current involved in the cable, cheaper than copper cable because it is made from silica (glass), and does not

List of abbreviations

  1. FBW- Fly-by-Wire
  2. FBL- Fly-by-Light
https://www.slideshare.net/allanlee/sfp-trrx-selection-guidejan2014)

  1. AVIONIC MULTIFIBER ARRAY CONNECTOR (AVMAC)
Multifiber Array Connector II or MACII that was being use is going to be replace with the new Avionic Multifiber Array Connector or AVMAC. The new AVMAC was developed with AT&T with the purpose of upgrading the old MACII for fibre optic connection. The main function of new AVMAC is to be the termination point of fibre optic ribbon assembly. Ribbon fibre is basically a group of fibres, 12 or 18, arranged into a linear array. This ribbon fibre will be jacketed, wrap with buffer coat and strength member which will be very similar to the single channel fibre as MDA/TA-DAC approved. The AVMAC is a device which will connect the array of fibre in the ribbon to hold each individual fibre so that it can be align and easier to install
0022606.008.png

to the other mating half.


Figure: Cross-sectional of ribbon fibre assembly which consist of 12 fibre optic cables.

  1. SPLICES
During maintenance and installation, fibre optic needs to be splice to fit. After testing several fibre optic mechanical splices and only two mechanical splices that achieved MDA/TA-DAC approval. Although the two mechanical splices is considered to date fit their installation and maintenance approach, it is still cannot withstand the aircraft environment and none is consider as the right mechanical splices for aviation grade quality. The reasons for this result came from several points of the disadvantage of using market-ready mechanical splices in aircraft environment. First reason, fibre optic cable need to remove the buffer and the strength member in order to do splicing. If the buffer and strength member removed from the cable, every mechanical protection for the glass fibre ends at the splicing. Second, having the glass fibre exposed to the atmosphere, moisture in the air will get into the micro-cracks that naturally exist and will further expand the severity of the cracks into larger cracks. Increase in optical power loss as the micro-cracks elongated and propagated. Lastly, apart from previous problems with market-ready mechanical splices, it is also imposed a fire hazard due to this fusion splicing creates spark while being use on aircraft. Regulation made it clear that any devices that create spark or open flame are not permitted on fuelled aircraft. Due to the disadvantages mentioned, MDA-TA has develop their own designs for their fibre optic mechanical and chemical bond splices.

The new invention of splices/connectors would be a small, one piece construction that is lightweight and could withstand aircraft environment. The new connectors that were design with environmentally sealed construction should be accepting a single mated pin and socket termini for either fibre optic cable or standard copper wire. The connectors is very adaptable and can be install anywhere directly onto fibre optic cable that might need repairs such as a splices, modification or maintenance purpose. Next figure will show the example of the newly design connectors to fit aircraft usage and regulation.

0022606.009.png

Figure: Fibre Optic/ Electrical Single-Channel Splice/ Connector/ Feedthrough


Contents

ABSTRACT

Part 1: INTRODUCTION

1.1 OVERVIEW

1.2 IMPORTANCE OF THIS STUDY

1.3 AIM AND OBJECTIVES

1.4 HYPOTHESIS

1.5 LIMITATION

Part 2: Literature Review

2.1 Overview

2.2 FLY-BY-LIGHT AS NEW EMERGING TECHNOLOGY FOR AIRCRAFT SYSTEM

2.2.1 Advantages of using fibre optic cables over copper cables

2.2.2 INSTALLATION OF FIBER OPTIC CABLE ON AIRCRAFT

2.2.2 FLASH PROGRAM FOR RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT

2.2.2.1 OPEN ARCHITECTURE CONCEPT

2.2.2.2 MAJOR ASPECTS IN FLASH PROGRAM

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FC1 is now using an all new FBO flight controls - reported through CADI - now been tested on DS. I am surprised this should be the focus of debate but all i am seeing are presumptions and schoolboy speculations. @All.

Unfortunately, most of us are internet warriors having less in regard to authentic information. I must say that, thanks to the informed members like you & others that we sometime read viola update negating all the negativity.

On topic: We are somehow expecting a good news in regard to AESA for Block-III, which is still not decided as far as information is available in public domain. I read (thanks to @HRK as well for posting a link recently as a refresher) that there are three contenders from China having KLJ7A in two versions (Air & Liquid Cooled) and LKF601E (air cooled) having smaller size/easy to fit in current nose cone/setup for Thunder in addition to possibility of Italian Vixen. Then after, we may be able to see the first flight by start of next year. So that pretty much isolated the discussion having no further information on subject.
 
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FBO blurb from another website.


Cost per se is not a big blocker, a multi-mode single clad fiber costs a few $$ per meter. Even with aviation qualification costs, it won't be terribly expensive. And not in itself significantly more expensive than the equivalent electrical wires. And as you mention, fiber optics are not exactly new. They've been around for 40 years, used extensively since at least 20 for data, and used since 15 years for high power applications or applications in hostile environments. I started my working career on high power fiber laser 10 years ago, and high performance fibers were already reliable and cheap back then.

The problem is more that the design organisations are just terribly conservative. Anything designed on an aircraft is tightly constrained by a multitude of rules & regulations, either from certification or internal design rules from each OEM. And the design of every single part on an aircraft calls upon many different specialists within the organisation, with each an own domain of competence. To manage this complexity, the only solution today is basically to do the same things over and over again. If it worked before, it should work again.

Airplane data networks have historically been fragmented point-to-point designs with heavy use of unsophisticated analog and discrete links, or limited buses like Arinc 429. This in turn led to specific design thinking, performance requirements, installation solutions and other various constraints, and this in turn makes it difficult to move to networks with full duplex buses.
What this then implies is that airplanes tend to be designed with a multitude of low data volume point-to-point links rather than a few wires carrying big amounts of data.
But as fiber optics are mainly useful for their capability to carry lots of data, they cannot be used to the best of their abilities in such an architecture, and the business case conclusion is usually "well there is no added value to fiber optics".

In addition, fiber optics has its own installation needs & constraints vs electrical.
For example, electrical connectors work OK as long as some contact is established between the 2 parts. So having lots of electrical connectors is acceptable, even if it's better to minimise the number. However, fiber optics really don't like connectors because light has to jump from one fiber to the other without being disturbed too much. But imagine connecting these things in a dirty FAL...
Other problem : electric-to-optic conversion is roughly 50% efficient. So each time there is a conversion, there is a lot of loss. So such conversions have to be kept to a minimum.

On the + side, fiber optics are low weight and small. So compared to electrical cables, the designers could really benefit by installing dozens or hundreds of fiber optic links all over the place. But that would require a new approach to systems certification. And more simply, it's not how things are done today.
The other big advantage of fiber optics is the interference/EM robustness. Which is directly useful in aircraft like the P1 carrying lots of sophisticated EM sensing devices. But on airliners, the gain would be to reduce the segregation requirements between various routes. But unless the aircraft's systems are completely re-designed to exploit this property, it again doesn't add much value.

So the point is that to fully benefit from the advantages of fiber optics while avoiding their drawbacks, the complete design of at least the data communication networks of the aircraft needs to be re-thought. More likely, the design of all its systems needs to change, including all performance calculations, certification rules & acceptable proof of compliance, test methods, installation rules & design, etc...and more importantly, requiring a change of mindsets, organisation and responsibilities. If designers just try to replace electrical cables with fiber 1-for-1, it'll never work. It's like trying to fit a square in a circular hole.

So not gonna happen any time soon, at least from my perspective. But my deepest wish is to be wrong...
 
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0022606.001.png

fly by wire
Figure 1: Fly-by-Wire standard wire routing in aircraft (ICCCI, 2014

0022606.002.png


Figure 2: FBL utilized the same cable routing as the FBW but with reduced cable amount (ICCCI, 2014)
fly by light

fly by light will reduce weight
effectively work in all weather
hard to jam
 
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