JF-17 Block-3 -- Updates, News & Discussion

[messiach]

He is perhaps alluding to manufacturing capacity which was based on our overall capability & absorptive capacity which was very marginal then. Kamra had no role in R&D, that was entirely undertaken by chinese H6 team with mikoyan engineers - esp mikoyan. Their help i have said before was make or break.

Why are we not getting it than?

AVM in this video says that PAF were not happy with FC20

 

[Kabotar]

He is perhaps alluding to manufacturing capacity which was based on our overall capability & absorptive capacity which was very marginal then. Kamra had no role in R&D, that was entirely undertaken by chinese H6 team with mikoyan engineers - esp mikoyan. Their help i have said before was make or break.

How is our absorption ability today? Will we have reasonable or meaningful R&D contribution in AZM? There was news early on that Mikoyan was against Russia providing RD93 for JF17 as it would compete against Mig29/35.

 

[messiach]

Incorrect news.

There was news early on that Mikoyan was against Russia providing RD93 for JF17 as it would compete against Mig29/35.

 

[Kabotar]

Incorrect news.

Will we have reasonable or meaningful R&D contribution in AZM?

 

[Trailer23]

Its already October and still no news about the Block III.

When is this bird gonna be unveiled already?

 

[Sunny4pak]

J10C is definitely available for export to PK. The option is there.

But as per Alan Warnes J-10 didn't Qualified PAF requirements then, Lets see if PAF willing to go for J10C as stop gap measure.

 

[Quwa]

But as per Alan Warnes J-10 didn't Qualified PAF requirements then, Lets see if PAF willing to go for J10C as stop gap measure.

According to the CAS (Jane's interview May 2019) the PAF's priorities are the Block 3, a new LIFT (M-345 or L-15), and FGFA/Azm. And Warnes was also clear in saying the PAF isn't interested in the J-10, which I guess includes the J-10C.

In 2016, Jane's was told the PAF wanted an interim bridge fighter, and the Su-35 was an option, but it was in lieu of the F-16.

I think we can largely conclude that the only other bird the PAF might consider now is the Block-72 and F-16V upgrade. And at $120-140 m per jet and with possibility of mixing with US CSF, loans, etc, it's the only possible outcome for the interim.

If there are no F-16s, we'll need to get ready for the idea that all we have is the Block 3 (until Pr Azm).

 

[Sunny4pak]

According to the CAS (Jane's interview May 2019) the PAF's priorities are the Block 3, a new LIFT (M-345 or L-15), and FGFA/Azm. And Warnes was also clear in saying the PAF isn't interested in the J-10, which I guess includes the J-10C.

In 2016, Jane's was told the PAF wanted an interim bridge fighter, and the Su-35 was an option, but it was in lieu of the F-16.

I think we can largely conclude that the only other bird the PAF might consider now is the Block-72 and F-16V upgrade. And at $120-140 m per jet and with possibility of mixing with US CSF, loans, etc, it's the only possible outcome for the interim.

If there are no F-16s, we'll need to get ready for the idea that all we have is the Block 3 (until Pr Azm).

Sir, But Uncle Sam isn't going to release AH-1Z so F-16v is beyond imagination at this stage.

 

[BATMAN]

Will we have reasonable or meaningful R&D contribution in AZM?

So far there's no news of any foreign partner in AZM project.
Pakistan engineers were in Chengdu laying out design parameters for jF-17 development and actively participating in engineering /testing.
Musharraf sent many engineers abroad for phd in aeronautical engineering and related fields, they all were engaged in the development.
It's wrong statement that Pakistan had no contribution in jF-17 design.
Infact, before jF-17 project, China aircraft development was limited to the level of 3rd generation fighters.
DSI was first introduced in jF-17 copied into J-10 and J-31.
LERX was also Pakistani design element, MFD, FBW, HUD, all these things would not have been there, if there was no Pakistani involvement.
I remember, Indian Teja didn't had MFD until the pictures of jF-17 CP were leaked.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

Its already October and still no news about the Block III.

When is this bird gonna be unveiled already?

I think almost all of us are gonna get betrayed when block III is revealed

And at $120-140 m per jet

What is the price of Rafale and EF Typhoon and Gripen NG?

 

[LKJ86]

Infact, before jF-17 project, China aircraft development was limited to the level of 3rd generation fighters.
DSI was first introduced in jF-17 copied into J-10 and J-31.
LERX was also Pakistani design element, MFD, FBW, HUD, all these things would not have been there, if there was no Pakistani involvement.

You can do nothing without a strong aviation industry.

 

[BATMAN]

Because its JF-17 block 3 cockpit...

No it's blk-1 and it's the simulator.

 

[MrSato1]

So far there's no news of any foreign partner in AZM project.
Pakistan engineers were in Chengdu laying out design parameters for jF-17 development and actively participating in engineering /testing.
Musharraf sent many engineers abroad for phd in aeronautical engineering and related fields, they all were engaged in the development.
It's wrong statement that Pakistan had no contribution in jF-17 design.
Infact, before jF-17 project, China aircraft development was limited to the level of 3rd generation fighters.
DSI was first introduced in jF-17 copied into J-10 and J-31.
LERX was also Pakistani design element, MFD, FBW, HUD, all these things would not have been there, if there was no Pakistani involvement.
I remember, Indian Teja didn't had MFD until the pictures of jF-17 CP were leaked.

what a joke

 

[Alpha BeeTee]

If there are no F-16s, we'll need to get ready for the idea that all we have is the Block 3 (until Pr Azm).

That would be a case of PAF caught napping. We are sick and tired of hearing that PAF is 'satisfied' with JFT. But this 'satisfaction' was never clearly defined. Satisfaction in terms of JFT's envisioned role or satisfaction in terms of JFT's ability to deal with contemporary and evolving threats? Assuming that latter is true is a leap of faith we'd have to take.

 

[Quwa]

That would be a case of PAF caught napping. We are sick and tired of hearing that PAF is 'satisfied' with JFT. But this 'satisfaction' was never clearly defined. Satisfaction in terms of JFT's envisioned role or satisfaction in terms of JFT's ability to deal with contemporary and evolving threats? Assuming that latter is true is a leap of faith we'd have to take.

Well, let's say they get the J-10C, how much of an improvement would it offer over the JF-17 B3? I mean, let's analyze this in granular terms. Will the radar offer 100% more range and targeting? Is the PL-15 tied to exclusively the J-10C? I don't think it's a "yes" on either scenario, so I can see why the PAF trusts the B3 and/or isn't interested in the J-10CE.

As for other options, well here's the rundown.

1. Su-35: the OEM isn't talking about customization, and a purchase from Russia is a sanction call via CAATSA.

2: Typhoon T3 costs $225 m all-in per plane, and it needs the approval of all consortium members, and the Meteor needs France's approval.

3. Rafale: France probably won't sell.

2 out of 3 options are clearly tied to our weak economic situation, which I can't blame the PAF for. It might be able to buy the J-10CE on a loan from China (as PN is doing for ships), but we're not 100% convinced that's enough of an added difference maker for a totally new jet.

While corruption in the PAF can be a factor, just as it stops certain programs, it can also drive others. If we had Typhoon contract on the cards and the right folks were to make a killing off it, it'd go through. Heck, if we wanted the cheapest possible Meteor truck with a good 150-200 km range radar, we can push for the Gripen E/F (and take a risk on US engines and all). I'm sure Saab will line someone's pockets and make it happen if we had the means to buy the jets...

But even that isn't happening... So, clearly, Pak lacks the fiscal means to make it happen. It's as simple as that IMHO... As it stands, anyone with money and access will import... I don't think we can make an argument of the PAF being the sole entity to go against human nature and common sense to do corruption by going in-house. It's the other way around Lol.