JF-17 Block-3 -- Updates, News & Discussion

[Riz]

In their latest article, @Quwa states that March 2020 is the unveiling date for block 3.

Lol.. And that too without AESA radar.. Our home made jet will be remain teeth less for another two or 3 more years

 

[araz]

Lol.. And that too without AESA radar.. Our home made jet will be remain teeth less for another two or 3 more years

It is very easy to sit on our backsides and point fingers. Please understand what is happening before you post. There has been a huge surge towards AESA and finally we heard that PAF had an indegenous AESA Solution. That being the case what is the source of parts used as Paklands do not have the infrastructure to do so?. So a hybrid solution is being tried which will take time. We may have tensions on our borders but the block 3s will pay no significant part in any excursion against our arch enemy. The reason will be lack of actual field trials and the pilots getting trained on the use of AESA Radar, and the radar incorporated into our game plan. This could well take 2-3 years and newer techniques will need to be devised on the Radar use. We may have had some experience against the AESA bearing platforms of the Chinese and will try out our ware against their platforms initially.
All of this takes time which is why PAF is taking time. Rest assured platform use and ease of use will increase with time.
A

 

[Haris Ali2140]

It is very easy to sit on our backsides and point fingers. Please understand what is happening before you post. There has been a huge surge towards AESA and finally we heard that PAF had an indegenous AESA Solution. That being the case what is the source of parts used as Paklands do not have the infrastructure to do so?. So a hybrid solution is being tried which will take time. We may have tensions on our borders but the block 3s will pay no significant part in any excursion against our arch enemy. The reason will be lack of actual field trials and the pilots getting trained on the use of AESA Radar, and the radar incorporated into our game plan. This could well take 2-3 years and newer techniques will need to be devised on the Radar use. We may have had some experience against the AESA bearing platforms of the Chinese and will try out our ware against their platforms initially.
All of this takes time which is why PAF is taking time. Rest assured platform use and ease of use will increase with time.
A

Everyone especially armchair experts & generals (like me) are anxious due to deteriorating situation at the border.
Even though any logical & sane mind will term the statements coming from across the border as empty rhetoric but the Establishment over there is no more logical.

 

[araz]

Everyone especially armchair experts & generals (like me) are anxious due to deteriorating situation at the border.
Even though any logical & sane mind will term the statements coming from across the border as empty rhetoric but the Establishment over there is no more logical.

At the expense of digressing the mindset is to immulate Israeli plan to annex Palestine. It has been done after a lot of thought and to be fair the consequences have been thought out. You will notice that not much brutality is occuring in Kashmir in spite of open defiance of the Curfew. As long as IA can keep the situation reasonably sane Paklands do not have any justifiable higher moral ground to intervene. This remains the problem.
A

 

[Alpha BeeTee]

Lol.. And that too without AESA radar.. Our home made jet will be remain teeth less for another two or 3 more years

Blk 3 was hyped up ruthlessly without any thinking.

Now offcourse those people will be disappointed who were pitching the fantasized blk 3 against Rafale.

 

[khanasifm]

No need for drama , per acm interview March 2020 was induction date for block 3 in paf let’s see anyone who has worked in defense industry can tell you like other major industries for example construction too many variables to play with so timeline are going to move so what, eventually it will happen

End of story no need to create a pak drama too many reee reee already on tv

 

[Syed1.]

No need for drama , per acm interview March 2020 was induction date for block 3 in paf let’s see anyone who has worked in defense industry can tell you like other major industries for example construction too many variables to play with so timeline are going to move so what, eventually it will happen

End of story no need to create a pak drama too many reee reee already on tv

Sir rona dhona is our national pastime, please respect it

 

[Chak Bamu]

Blk 3 was hyped up ruthlessly without any thinking.

Now offcourse those people will be disappointed who were pitching the fantasized blk 3 against Rafale.

You seem to know the final specs of JF-17 Block III, and hence your authoritative statement.

Care to share the same with us mortals so that we may know what is or is not going to be integrated on JF-17 Block III?

 

[Alpha BeeTee]

You seem to know the final specs of JF-17 Block III, and hence your authoritative statement.

Care to share the same with us mortals so that we may know what is or is not going to be integrated on JF-17 Block III?

Please view my comments for what they are.

1) Is blk 3 being hyped up needlessly and expected to jump from it's original role of replacing vintage jets to counter Rafale threat? Answer is yes.

2) Will the fanboys who want blk 3 to cater Rafale be disappointed once their eyes are opened to see varying catergories, capabilities and roles of both aircraft? Answer is again a yes.

In celebrating our JF17 success, many forget that JF-17 (any blk) was never meant to be PAF's brute punch. It's just a great force multiplier. The fighting has to be done by F16s and other platforms which are missing from our inventory.

We get emotional and aggressive I dont know why!

 

[Signalian]

Dude read what you wrote. Now you have turned 180 degrees

no i haven't.

I just tried to make you think a bit - so how can an aircraft get situational awareness if its radar is OFF. i expected you to answer it but thats alright.
1. AWACS - can guide it
2. Targeting pod - for IR profile of enemy aircraft as well as ground threats
3. Old School - Ground based Radar
4. Wing man - flying at a farther distance behind.
5. Sensors of defensive suite like RWR or EW pod etc.

what else ?

 

[Trango Towers]

no i haven't.

I just tried to make you think a bit - so how can an aircraft get situational awareness if its radar is OFF. i expected you to answer it but thats alright.
1. AWACS - can guide it
2. Targeting pod - for IR profile of enemy aircraft as well as ground threats
3. Old School - Ground based Radar
4. Wing man - flying at a farther distance behind.
5. Sensors of defensive suite like RWR or EW pod etc.

what else ?

Bro it was you that said....

Turning on ASEA will give away aircraft position. So I replied with tongue and cheek.
Now you should know what your write before getting someone else to thing. I mean if you have no idea what you are saying why do expect others to think. Come on bro

 

[Signalian]

Just a query for my own learning ... why are AESA called LPI radars? Aren't AESA's frequencies are more difficult to detect?

Good observation.

AESA are LPI Radars and yes frequencies are more difficult to detect but there are signal processing techniques which help LPI Radars get detected and these can be integrated into current RWRs. Techniques such as Higher Order Spectral Analysis (HOSA) to extract more information from the intercept of a wave-form/pulse from LPI Radar hence facilitating detection. The wave-form of a LPI Radar is based on FMCW, Frank Coded and Costas signals. The techniques through HOSA can be Bi-spectrum, Bi-coherence and Tri-spectrum techniques and Artificial Neural Networks (ANNs). The output of signal processing is sent to Artificial Neural Network (ANN) which is trained on these signatures so that it will be able to detect and identify the LPI radar signal whose type is unknown when received.

In simple words, a faint/low powered wave form/pulse is received from LPI radar, this wave form is processed and characterized for detection of aircraft using LPI Radar. Unfortunately, most of the signal processing and coding techniques (and their combinations) used in ground based and air borne radars are classified.

Its a very interesting topic.

Bro it was you that said....

Turning on ASEA will give away aircraft position. So I replied with tongue and cheek.
Now you should know what your write before getting someone else to thing. I mean if you have no idea what you are saying why do expect others to think. Come on bro

Yes i mentioned both cases because i know the result of both cases. Radar ON and Radar OFF.

PS: you can increase your post count by talking left and right

 

[Trango Towers]

Good observation.

AESA are LPI Radars and yes frequencies are more difficult to detect but there are signal processing techniques which makes helps LPI Radars get detected and these can be integrated into current RWRs. Techniques such as Higher Order Spectral Analysis (HOSA) to extract more information from the intercept of a wave-form/pulse from LPI Radar hence facilitating detection. The wave-form of a LPI Radar is based on FMCW, Frank Coded and Costas signals. The techniques through HOSA can be Bi-spectrum, Bi-coherence and Tri-spectrum techniques and Artificial Neural Networks (ANNs). The output of signal processing is sent to Artificial Neural Network (ANN) which is trained on these signatures so that it will be able to detect and identify the LPI radar signal whose type is unknown when received.

In simple words, a faint/low powered wave form/pulse is received from LPI radar, this wave form is processed and characterized for detection of aircraft using LPI Radar. Unfortunately, most of the signal processing and coding techniques (and their combinations) used in ground based and air borne radars are classified.

Its a very interesting topic.


Yes i mentioned both cases because i know the result of both cases. Radar ON and Radar OFF.

PS: you can increase your post count by talking left and right

Ok bro....have a good day inshallah

 

[Chak Bamu]

Please view my comments for what they are.

1) Is blk 3 being hyped up needlessly and expected to jump from it's original role of replacing vintage jets to counter Rafale threat? Answer is yes.

2) Will the fanboys who want blk 3 to cater Rafale be disappointed once their eyes are opened to see varying catergories, capabilities and roles of both aircraft? Answer is again a yes.

In celebrating our JF17 success, many forget that JF-17 (any blk) was never meant to be PAF's brute punch. It's just a great force multiplier. The fighting has to be done by F16s and other platforms which are missing from our inventory.

We get emotional and aggressive I dont know why!

Time passes and things change. In my view, JF-17 is no longer just a replacement of Mirages, A-5s, & F-7s. Its a platform, and a pretty good one that fits PAF doctrine very well.

All of your statements above are opinions, not facts. You are basically thinking out loud and needed a nudge to make you realize that JF-17 is not being hyped or made to be something that it is not. Its just that you think of it in those terms.

PAF does not own anything that could be termed a brute. A brute would cost a lot more to own & operate. JF-17 is a brute-killer. I hope you read the Hush Kit interview of JF-17 pilot. The lowly, small, & non-brute JF-17 locked on SU-30s across the LOC many times. So, being small and having a nasty punch is actually a good thing. We need medium weight fighter to compensate, but do not underestimate JF-17 & the unique mix of features it brings.

Look, PAF has a certain budget and Pakistan has a certain size of economy. Is it possible to afford expensive brutes in the current circumstances? In the past Pakistan had assistance due to its joining the Western camp against the USSR & its allies. WoT made it easier to procure F-16s and suitable armament. But that is past and can not be counted upon. China has done enough favors and it is time to come to terms with stark realities. Continuing to pump resources to maintain a certain parity vis-a-vis Indian forces will mean continuing to neglect HDI (Human Development Index) and to keep making Pakistan's economic, strategic, & social situation worse. Remember that everything boils down to strength of institutions (not just army) & productivity. Spending on defense does not help us improve either. Take a look at Turkey to understand this.

The best course of action for Pakistan is to maintain deterrence by promising unacceptable losses on the enemy if attacked. JF-17 helps us do this very well (in addition to saving on foreign exchange, earning via export, & improving strategic importance by creating useful linkages). For the next few years we must focus on JF-17 & its future iterations (Block-IV) and build local industry & expertise. This would provide multiple dividends in future.

 

[ABBASIA]

Can you refer that Quwa post for unveiling in March 2020.